All very good suggestions and I have cycled through most of them in one way or another. Hopefully Gavin is right and it will just work(tm) letting the Conversations timeout. Starting the Conversation at "the first submit" might work in some cases but usually the state (lists of objects etc) is created when the page is first shown not when the first submit from that page occurs. Using propagation="end" with any form of Conversation Begin in the same request/event will just reuse the same Conversation and not create a new one. What I basically (think) I'm looking for is a propagation that ends a named/current conversation in a 'before phase', destroying it before doing anything else, and then promotes the new Conversation into a long-running one. View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4067321#... Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&a...