The thirdparty directory seems to cover a lot of (only?) non-jboss stuff. For example, AbstractController.java is not under the 5.0 source directory anywhere, and it seems to be an important player here. I found a copy of it under viewvc, but it's obviously a different version as the line numbers don't line up. But I am at least able to look at variable values for that class in the debugger. And, yes, EJB3-1430 is the reason I downloaded beta4. I'm not sure how anyone's getting anywhere with CR2 as it stands. But, agreed, it's hard to tell if it's specific to the Beta4 load, as my current issue would have been preempted by the other one. Uploading the application might be a bit difficult as I don't think it'd be simply a matter of giving you the ear. I figured out the log4j thing - we had altered the default one so those lines weren't coming out. I just had to set the logger 'org.jboss.ejb3.deployers.JBossASKernel' to 'INFO' level. View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4182731#... Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&a...