You get a LIE because you didn't scope the PC correctly (no matter which PC). It's easier to scope a SMPC in a Seam application, usually to the conversation boundaries. This conversational programming model, applied correctly, with sometimes eager fetching of course, avoids all LIEs. A LIE is a design error, not something that happens randomly. View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4000757#... Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&a...