Is JBoss BPM now a different project than jBPM? Or is it one? Where is the exact goal of the BPM? Where does this BPM-API should lead to?

Hi all! I am really confused by now what is going on in the jBPM project and JBoss BPM project. Could somebody please clarify: - Is JBoss BPM now a different project than jBPM? Or is it one? - Where is the exact goal of the BPM? - Where does this BPM-API should lead to? - The BPM documentation uses some XML notation. Which language is that? - How does PVM / jBPM 4 relate to the “JBoss BPM”? - What products will be available? PVM, jBPM jPDL 3, jBPM jPDL 4? What’s with BPEL? - What effort is going to on to integrate BPMN? - Who is project lead of what? And: - When is the mailinglist used, when the forum? Sorry, but I am really confused. I thought there was a clear vision in the jBPM project (PVM / jBPM jPDL 4 as “reference implementation”), but now there are a lot of other things, like this “BPM product”. What is exactly going on here? Sorry for asking that “silly” questions, I have some idea in my mind about how everything goes on, but am not sure if that picture reflects reality ;-) And as long I don’t have a clear picture is hard for me to contribute ideas or code and to continue giving presentations on jBPM on conferences (since normally I try to know what I am talking about). Also it will be an interesting information for delivering the RedHat jBPM trainings…. Thanks for your answers Bernd -- EJB-3-Buch: http://www.ejbbuch.de/ SENS-Experte: http://www.softwareexperts.de/ --------------------------------------------- camunda services GmbH - The Business Process Company Werastraße 18 - 70182 Stuttgart www.camunda.com <http://www.camunda.com> - info(a)camunda.com <mailto:info@camunda.com> --------------------------------------------- Bernd Rücker Geschäftsführer Telefon +49 711 3278645 Mobil +49 171 1473461 bernd.ruecker(a)camunda.com <mailto:bernd.ruecker@camunda.com> --------------------------------------------- Amtsgericht Charlottenburg: HRB 113230 B Geschäftsführer: Jakob Freund, Bernd Rücker --------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ jbpm-dev mailing list jbpm-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev

Thomas, I read the API Mission before and still (even after the explanation below) have lots of questions, many similar to the ones Bernd has. Several remarks I read in the past were: - complying with a more 'planned' release schedule for jBPM - having a more sound build/test environment - having a more up-to-date and less confusing 'project/community' - having a more stable api (which is imo quite stable) The first two are important that important and you have put a lot of effort in the second one and try to stimulate the second one. Kudos for that because it was/is realy needed. The second one has not been achieved and, as can be made out by Bernds post which I second, has in fact gotten worse. The whole api (and implementation of yet another workflow language, oh wait, l that is the one from the theortical people,) an additional name, wiki, usage of words like 'the' api, drools having a workflow solution, the mail about not supporting patterns like described (which I dare to contradict if one just takes another angle on them) made things. More effort should have went into jBPM3 release, the PVM and jPDL4 instead of BPMN and the api implemantation. Simply because up to now, I've never missed the 'not supporting all patterns the way *they* think should be done'. That is the nice thing about jBPM. I've always thought of JBoss as not being Apache or Oracle/Bea with their many solutions for the same problem, but lately I'm starting to worry. Some people seem to have (or get) the attitude of 'aint invented here' or 'if you do not do it the way I like it, I'll do it differently'. This is not good. One mind, one voice. Ronald On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 8:58 AM, Thomas Diesler <thomas.diesler(a)jboss.com <mailto:thomas.diesler@jboss.com>> wrote: Hi Bernd, please see my response which can hopefully clarify the situation to some extend. > Is JBoss BPM now a different project than jBPM? Or is it one? > Where is the exact goal of the BPM? > Where does this BPM-API should lead to? The jBPM project is different from the the API+CTS effort. For the JBossBPM (this brand name is by no means final) Mission see http://jbpm.dyndns.org/jbpmwiki/index.php?title=APIMission Whether and how jBPM4 will adopt this (or another) API is currently being discussed and we can hopefully come to a conclusion by the end of Sep-2008. Apart from jBPM4 there is another JBoss player in the BPM space, which is DroolsFlow. There is a large overlap in functionality between these projects, which the API+CTS can hopefully consolidate. The situation with jBPM3 is, that it is currently our BPM solution that we ship with the various platforms. The project didn't have a release for over 9 months and generally lacked maturity from a product perspective. This is what I take care of. Starting with jbpm-3.3 we will have regular releases approximately every 8 weeks. The areas of improvement will be: automated qa, installer, console, maven build, scm http://jbws.dyndns.org:8280/hudson/job/jBPM-Matrix/ http://jbpm.dyndns.org/jbpmwiki/index.php?title=JBPM3BuildingTheInstaller http://jbpm.dyndns.org/jbpmwiki/index.php?title=JBPM3BuildingFromSource http://jbws.dyndns.org:8180/gwt-console There won't be much added functionality in jBPM3. Innovation happens in jBPM4, which will hopefully replace jBPM3 at some point in the future. Obviously, we need replacement criteria and provide a stable API at the same time that our enterprise customers can rely on. This is waht the API+CTS is about. In the meantime, the API+CTS is work in progress and will hopefully see much cooperation from the various camps such that we end up with a solution that our experts agree on. Finally, I must apologize for creating this confusion in the first place. The API+CTS started off as part of the jBPM3 productization effort and used the jBPM mailing list and forums for communication. Later we realized that we need to do some more home work on bringing all the players together. Until this is sorted, you should see no more posts on the API+CTS on the jBPM infrastructure. If you still like to stay informed please visit http://jbpm.dyndns.org/jbpmwiki Bottom Line: If you are a jBPM contributer, stay with jBPM, PVM, etc. until you hear from Tom Baeyens whether and how the project aligns with the JBoss BPM API+CTS effort. cheers -thomas Bernd Rücker wrote: Hi all! I am really confused by now what is going on in the jBPM project and JBoss BPM project. Could somebody please clarify: - Is JBoss BPM now a different project than jBPM? Or is it one? - Where is the exact goal of the BPM? - Where does this BPM-API should lead to? - The BPM documentation uses some XML notation. Which language is that? - How does PVM / jBPM 4 relate to the "JBoss BPM"? - What products will be available? PVM, jBPM jPDL 3, jBPM jPDL 4? What's with BPEL? - What effort is going to on to integrate BPMN? - Who is project lead of what? And: - When is the mailinglist used, when the forum? Sorry, but I am really confused. I thought there was a clear vision in the jBPM project (PVM / jBPM jPDL 4 as "reference implementation"), but now there are a lot of other things, like this "BPM product". What is exactly going on here? Sorry for asking that "silly" questions, I have some idea in my mind about how everything goes on, but am not sure if that picture reflects reality ;-) And as long I don't have a clear picture is hard for me to contribute ideas or code and to continue giving presentations on jBPM on conferences (since normally I try to know what I am talking about). Also it will be an interesting information for delivering the RedHat jBPM trainings…. Thanks for your answers Bernd -- EJB-3-Buch: http://www.ejbbuch.de/ SENS-Experte: http://www.softwareexperts.de/ --------------------------------------------- camunda services GmbH - The Business Process Company Werastraße 18 - 70182 Stuttgart www.camunda.com <http://www.camunda.com> <http://www.camunda.com> - info(a)camunda.com <mailto:info@camunda.com> <mailto:info@camunda.com <mailto:info@camunda.com>> --------------------------------------------- Bernd Rücker Geschäftsführer Telefon +49 711 3278645 Mobil +49 171 1473461 bernd.ruecker(a)camunda.com <mailto:bernd.ruecker@camunda.com> <mailto:bernd.ruecker@camunda.com <mailto:bernd.ruecker@camunda.com>> --------------------------------------------- Amtsgericht Charlottenburg: HRB 113230 B Geschäftsführer: Jakob Freund, Bernd Rücker --------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ jbpm-dev mailing list jbpm-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:jbpm-dev@lists.jboss.org> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev -- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Thomas Diesler BPM Product Lead JBoss, a division of Red Hat xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx _______________________________________________ jbpm-dev mailing list jbpm-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:jbpm-dev@lists.jboss.org> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev