On 02/01/2012 03:29 PM, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:
> Yes. If you don't add this at startup then the module loader
will hide
> all the Byteman classes from all JBoss classloaders. This means that you
> cannot decide to install a Byteman agent after AS startup in order to
> debug/trace behaviour in a broken App Server. It just won't work (TM).
> That's going to give our support team (not to mention our developers who
> need to use Byteman for testing) a major headache.
Yes, I know - same problem for those wanting to use jprofiler, yourkit, eclemma, and
others.
No, it's not actually the same at all. Very far from it.
With jprofiler etc you know in advance that you want to profile your
program run or whatever. With byteman you don't know until something
goes wrong that you might need to load the Byteman agent, install some
trace rules and see what is going wrong. Most customers don't even know
that this is an option. However, our support team do and regularly use
it to talk customers through problems which arise in both sandbox and
live installs. Without this preliminary step the customer has to stop
and restart the AS in order to load the Byteman agent and Byteman rules
and this often means that the problem goes away -- i.e. important
support opportunity lost.
Anyway, I don't really need to convince you of this. Our support team
have already convinced *me* that this is a vital config option. If you
want to remove this on the grounds that it is just like all these other
cases I suggest you talk them first. Otherwise when the support problems
start piling up you are definitely not going to be Mr Popular.
Yes, I just suggest we make this list include more than just byteman
and
take it *off* the commandline into a setting.
It is a setting already. The fact that it is set using a shell script
doesn't really change that. If you want to argue for an alternative
control well, I'll leave that to our usability experts.
> Also, I think the idea of adding this via a properties file
sounds nice
> at first but actually it is just splitting up the config by another
> name. One file to rule them all . . .
The problem is there are not one file to rule them all.
There is one per OS and tools that need to launch cannot use the .bat/.sh files
since no way to portably and reliably kill the process.
There is one file to rule them all as far as the normal startup
mechanism is concerned. At least that's precisely how Jason described it
some months back -- unless, perhaps, he has changed his mind?
That may not be of any help to you if you are starting the AS by other
means but surely you can provide equivalent configuration options and an
API to configure them. In which case just be sure to include this in
your default config. It may not be so important to your usrs but I
suspect that is not the case.
regards,
Andrew Dinn
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