12:48 p.m.
How do I FULLY reload my session with JPAKnowledgeService? Specifically, shouldn't my
session still know it's processes after reloading?
I'm using JPAKnowledgeService to persist my sessions and processes, after running, I
have the following DB rows:
SessionInfo - 1
ProcessInstanceInfo - 3 (1 ClaimFlow, and 2 subflow DocFlows)
I get a session properly with loadStatefulKnowledgeSession:
StatefulKnowledgeSession session = JPAKnowledgeService.loadStatefulKnowledgeSession( 1,
knowledgeBase, null, env );
but this statement returns an empty collection:
Collection<ProcessInstance> instanceCollection = session.getProcessInstances();
There is no key link between @Entity SessionInfo and ProcessInstanceInfo, so that result
makes sense.... but shouldn't restoring the session restore the links to the active
process within that session?
I can get the processes by id, but I'm not sure grabbing a subflow works in this
example, I really want the session:
ProcessInstance processClm = session.getProcessInstance(1);
Is there actually some other way to retrieve the processes from reloaded session?
As always, thanks for the help!
Bill
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8:19 p.m.
The getProcessInstances() method returns all process instances that are
currently loaded into the engine. When using persistence, we
deliberately made that method to NOT fetch all active process instances
(as this could be thousands and that would impact performance). So if
you use persistence, you will always get an empty list as the process
instances are not kept in memory but stored in the database. But don't
worry, the engine will know when to reload process instances, you
shouldn't take care of that yourself.
Could you explain the use case you are trying to support in a little
more detail? In general, I think you should be using a history log for
this, where you can query the active instances, the completed ones, what
happened, etc.
Kris
Quoting Bill Tarr <javatestcase(a)yahoo.com>:
How do I FULLY reload my session with JPAKnowledgeService?
Specifically, shouldn't my session still know it's processes after
reloading?
I'm using JPAKnowledgeService to persist my sessions and processes,
after running, I have the following DB rows:
SessionInfo - 1
ProcessInstanceInfo - 3 (1 ClaimFlow, and 2 subflow DocFlows)
I get a session properly with loadStatefulKnowledgeSession:
StatefulKnowledgeSession session =
JPAKnowledgeService.loadStatefulKnowledgeSession( 1, knowledgeBase,
null, env );
but this statement returns an empty collection:
Collection<ProcessInstance> instanceCollection =
session.getProcessInstances();
There is no key link between @Entity SessionInfo and
ProcessInstanceInfo, so that result makes sense.... but shouldn't
restoring the session restore the links to the active process within
that session?
I can get the processes by id, but I'm not sure grabbing a subflow
works in this example, I really want the session:
ProcessInstance processClm = session.getProcessInstance(1);
Is there actually some other way to retrieve the processes from
reloaded session?
As always, thanks for the help!
Bill
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2:51 a.m.
Well, it sounds like my idea of a persisted Session might be different from what you have
in mind.
I have been thinking of Sessions as containers for a bunch of associated processes.
Let me ask this first:
What is the purpose of persisting the SessionInfo @Entity?
It has lost it's processes, what useful information does it have? Why not just create
a new Session and use it to open your processes?
I do recognize the need to maintain a list of processes associated any given domain
objects (which for me are Claims.)
Let me lay out the system and use case, and my proposed solution, and you can tell me if
I'm barking up the wrong tree.
MODEL
1. I have a *Claim* process
2. has 1..n of subflows in a ForEach representing documents
3. has 1 supporting subflows each for - Creation, Benefits, Subrogation
WORKFLOW
1. Each Claim (and subflows) interacts with several users
2. Long periods of time between user interaction (waiting for extenal stuff)
DESIGN IDEA
1. Create sessions and processes with JPAKnowledgeService on Claim create
2. Have Events as blocking points in the flows, persist - await User interaction
3. Store Session ID in Claim domain object (i.e. Claim#1002 is Drools Flow Session#879)
4. Events from User, reload session, **route Event to appropriate workflow**
USE CASE
1. Receive Event in Document #2 of 2
2. All Doc Process are now complete, return to Claim Process
3. Claim Process continues, enters Benefits Process
So, during one Event, Drools has closed a Process, returned to the parent Process, then
opened a new Process as a subflow.
If the reloaded Session knew all the processes associated with my Claim, I could handle
events coming in easily.
Look at the session, find the active subflow, pass in the event. Otherwise I must track
all subflows.
Anyway, any help you can provide in helping me understand how to use the persistence model
better is greatly appreaciated.
Bill
----- Original Message ----
From: Kris Verlaenen <kris.verlaenen(a)cs.kuleuven.be>
To: Rules Users List <rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org>; Bill Tarr
<javatestcase(a)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, October 22, 2009 6:19:30 PM
Subject: Re: [rules-users] [droolsflow] JPAKnowledgeService - how do you reload a Session
with Processes?
The getProcessInstances() method returns all process instances that are
currently loaded into the engine. When using persistence, we
deliberately made that method to NOT fetch all active process instances
(as this could be thousands and that would impact performance). So if
you use persistence, you will always get an empty list as the process
instances are not kept in memory but stored in the database. But don't
worry, the engine will know when to reload process instances, you
shouldn't take care of that yourself.
Could you explain the use case you are trying to support in a little
more detail? In general, I think you should be using a history log for
this, where you can query the active instances, the completed ones, what
happened, etc.
Kris
Quoting Bill Tarr <javatestcase(a)yahoo.com>:
How do I FULLY reload my session with JPAKnowledgeService?
Specifically, shouldn't my session still know it's processes after
reloading?
I'm using JPAKnowledgeService to persist my sessions and processes,
after running, I have the following DB rows:
SessionInfo - 1
ProcessInstanceInfo - 3 (1 ClaimFlow, and 2 subflow DocFlows)
I get a session properly with loadStatefulKnowledgeSession:
StatefulKnowledgeSession session =
JPAKnowledgeService.loadStatefulKnowledgeSession( 1, knowledgeBase,
null, env );
but this statement returns an empty collection:
Collection<ProcessInstance> instanceCollection =
session.getProcessInstances();
There is no key link between @Entity SessionInfo and
ProcessInstanceInfo, so that result makes sense.... but shouldn't
restoring the session restore the links to the active process within
that session?
I can get the processes by id, but I'm not sure grabbing a subflow
works in this example, I really want the session:
ProcessInstance processClm = session.getProcessInstance(1);
Is there actually some other way to retrieve the processes from
reloaded session?
As always, thanks for the help!
Bill
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
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11:03 a.m.
Quoting Bill Tarr <javatestcase(a)yahoo.com>:
What is the purpose of persisting the SessionInfo @Entity?
Note that we are not purely process-oriented but knowledge-oriented, so
this also includes rules and event processing. If you only use simple
processes without rules, your session state will indeed be empty. But
all rule-related state (objects in working memory, rules on agenda,
etc.) can also be part of your session state.
It has lost it's processes, what useful information does it
have? Why not just create a new Session and use it to open your
processes?
If you only use processes without rules, you could do this.
I do recognize the need to maintain a list of processes associated
any given domain objects (which for me are Claims.)
Based on your explanation, I
still believe you should probably not use
getProcessInstances() to find the process instance you need to signal.
Main reason is that we want to avoid having all active process instances
in memory (we use lazy loading), and this might become difficult to
manage once you start adding more processes. Alternatively, you could do:
1. Add the necessary data to your Claim object to facilitate looking up
this information later. For example, use on-entry/on-exit actions to
add an Episode to your claim, where the Episode would contain the
process instance id. That way you can query the Claim for active Episodes.
2. Retrieve the top-level Claim process instance and search for all
active node instances in there that are SubProcess node instances. You
can get the process instance id from those as well.
3. Use a custom history log and create queries that could retrieve the
active sub-processes of a parent process based on the logged events.
Kris
Let me lay out the system and use case, and my proposed solution, and
you can tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree.
MODEL
1. I have a *Claim* process
2. has 1..n of subflows in a ForEach representing documents
3. has 1 supporting subflows each for - Creation, Benefits,
Subrogation
WORKFLOW
1. Each Claim (and subflows) interacts with several users
2. Long periods of time between user interaction (waiting for extenal
stuff)
DESIGN IDEA
1. Create sessions and processes with JPAKnowledgeService on Claim
create
2. Have Events as blocking points in the flows, persist - await User
interaction
3. Store Session ID in Claim domain object (i.e. Claim#1002 is Drools
Flow Session#879)
4. Events from User, reload session, **route Event to appropriate
workflow**
USE CASE
1. Receive Event in Document #2 of 2
2. All Doc Process are now complete, return to Claim Process
3. Claim Process continues, enters Benefits Process
So, during one Event, Drools has closed a Process, returned to the
parent Process, then opened a new Process as a subflow.
If the reloaded Session knew all the processes associated with my
Claim, I could handle events coming in easily.
Look at the session, find the active subflow, pass in the event.
Otherwise I must track all subflows.
Anyway, any help you can provide in helping me understand how to use
the persistence model better is greatly appreaciated.
Bill
----- Original Message ----
From: Kris Verlaenen <kris.verlaenen(a)cs.kuleuven.be>
To: Rules Users List <rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org>; Bill Tarr
<javatestcase(a)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, October 22, 2009 6:19:30 PM
Subject: Re: [rules-users] [droolsflow] JPAKnowledgeService - how do
you reload a Session with Processes?
The getProcessInstances() method returns all process instances that
are
currently loaded into the engine. When using persistence, we
deliberately made that method to NOT fetch all active process
instances
(as this could be thousands and that would impact performance). So
if
you use persistence, you will always get an empty list as the
process
instances are not kept in memory but stored in the database. But
don't
worry, the engine will know when to reload process instances, you
shouldn't take care of that yourself.
Could you explain the use case you are trying to support in a little
more detail? In general, I think you should be using a history log
for
this, where you can query the active instances, the completed ones,
what
happened, etc.
Kris
Quoting Bill Tarr <javatestcase(a)yahoo.com>:
> How do I FULLY reload my session with JPAKnowledgeService?
> Specifically, shouldn't my session still know it's processes after
> reloading?
>
> I'm using JPAKnowledgeService to persist my sessions and
processes,
> after running, I have the following DB rows:
>
> SessionInfo - 1
> ProcessInstanceInfo - 3 (1 ClaimFlow, and 2 subflow DocFlows)
>
> I get a session properly with loadStatefulKnowledgeSession:
>
> StatefulKnowledgeSession session =
> JPAKnowledgeService.loadStatefulKnowledgeSession( 1,
knowledgeBase,
> null, env );
>
> but this statement returns an empty collection:
>
> Collection<ProcessInstance> instanceCollection =
> session.getProcessInstances();
>
> There is no key link between @Entity SessionInfo and
> ProcessInstanceInfo, so that result makes sense.... but shouldn't
> restoring the session restore the links to the active process
within
> that session?
>
> I can get the processes by id, but I'm not sure grabbing a subflow
> works in this example, I really want the session:
>
> ProcessInstance processClm = session.getProcessInstance(1);
>
> Is there actually some other way to retrieve the processes from
> reloaded session?
>
> As always, thanks for the help!
>
> Bill
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> rules-users mailing list
> rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
>
Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm
_______________________________________________
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5:41 p.m.
OK, well thanks Kris. That gives me something to work with.
I am in fact currently only using processes, not rules for my Drools Flow, so it explains
a lot.
One final question here:
2. Retrieve the top-level Claim process instance and search for all
active node instances in there that are SubProcess node instances. You
can get the process instance id from those as well.
This seems the closest to what I was planning to implement.
However, I don't see any methods in either StatefulKnowledgeSession or ProcessInstance
that would enable me to gather up SubProcess node instances.
Could you point me in the right direction on how I could do this?
----- Original Message ----
From: Kris Verlaenen <kris.verlaenen(a)cs.kuleuven.be>
To: Rules Users List <rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org>; Bill Tarr
<javatestcase(a)yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, October 23, 2009 9:03:31 AM
Subject: Re: [rules-users] [droolsflow] JPAKnowledgeService - how do you reload a Session
with Processes?
Quoting Bill Tarr <javatestcase(a)yahoo.com>:
What is the purpose of persisting the SessionInfo @Entity?
Note that we are not purely process-oriented but knowledge-oriented, so
this also includes rules and event processing. If you only use simple
processes without rules, your session state will indeed be empty. But
all rule-related state (objects in working memory, rules on agenda,
etc.) can also be part of your session state.
It has lost it's processes, what useful information does it
have? Why not just create a new Session and use it to open your
processes?
If you only use processes without rules, you could do this.
I do recognize the need to maintain a list of processes associated
any given domain objects (which for me are Claims.)
Based on your explanation, I
still believe you should probably not use
getProcessInstances() to find the process instance you need to signal.
Main reason is that we want to avoid having all active process instances
in memory (we use lazy loading), and this might become difficult to
manage once you start adding more processes. Alternatively, you could do:
1. Add the necessary data to your Claim object to facilitate looking up
this information later. For example, use on-entry/on-exit actions to
add an Episode to your claim, where the Episode would contain the
process instance id. That way you can query the Claim for active Episodes.
2. Retrieve the top-level Claim process instance and search for all
active node instances in there that are SubProcess node instances. You
can get the process instance id from those as well.
3. Use a custom history log and create queries that could retrieve the
active sub-processes of a parent process based on the logged events.
Kris
Let me lay out the system and use case, and my proposed solution, and
you can tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree.
MODEL
1. I have a *Claim* process
2. has 1..n of subflows in a ForEach representing documents
3. has 1 supporting subflows each for - Creation, Benefits,
Subrogation
WORKFLOW
1. Each Claim (and subflows) interacts with several users
2. Long periods of time between user interaction (waiting for extenal
stuff)
DESIGN IDEA
1. Create sessions and processes with JPAKnowledgeService on Claim
create
2. Have Events as blocking points in the flows, persist - await User
interaction
3. Store Session ID in Claim domain object (i.e. Claim#1002 is Drools
Flow Session#879)
4. Events from User, reload session, **route Event to appropriate
workflow**
USE CASE
1. Receive Event in Document #2 of 2
2. All Doc Process are now complete, return to Claim Process
3. Claim Process continues, enters Benefits Process
So, during one Event, Drools has closed a Process, returned to the
parent Process, then opened a new Process as a subflow.
If the reloaded Session knew all the processes associated with my
Claim, I could handle events coming in easily.
Look at the session, find the active subflow, pass in the event.
Otherwise I must track all subflows.
Anyway, any help you can provide in helping me understand how to use
the persistence model better is greatly appreaciated.
Bill
----- Original Message ----
From: Kris Verlaenen <kris.verlaenen(a)cs.kuleuven.be>
To: Rules Users List <rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org>; Bill Tarr
<javatestcase(a)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, October 22, 2009 6:19:30 PM
Subject: Re: [rules-users] [droolsflow] JPAKnowledgeService - how do
you reload a Session with Processes?
The getProcessInstances() method returns all process instances that
are
currently loaded into the engine. When using persistence, we
deliberately made that method to NOT fetch all active process
instances
(as this could be thousands and that would impact performance). So
if
you use persistence, you will always get an empty list as the
process
instances are not kept in memory but stored in the database. But
don't
worry, the engine will know when to reload process instances, you
shouldn't take care of that yourself.
Could you explain the use case you are trying to support in a little
more detail? In general, I think you should be using a history log
for
this, where you can query the active instances, the completed ones,
what
happened, etc.
Kris
Quoting Bill Tarr <javatestcase(a)yahoo.com>:
> How do I FULLY reload my session with JPAKnowledgeService?
> Specifically, shouldn't my session still know it's processes after
> reloading?
>
> I'm using JPAKnowledgeService to persist my sessions and
processes,
> after running, I have the following DB rows:
>
> SessionInfo - 1
> ProcessInstanceInfo - 3 (1 ClaimFlow, and 2 subflow DocFlows)
>
> I get a session properly with loadStatefulKnowledgeSession:
>
> StatefulKnowledgeSession session =
> JPAKnowledgeService.loadStatefulKnowledgeSession( 1,
knowledgeBase,
> null, env );
>
> but this statement returns an empty collection:
>
> Collection<ProcessInstance> instanceCollection =
> session.getProcessInstances();
>
> There is no key link between @Entity SessionInfo and
> ProcessInstanceInfo, so that result makes sense.... but shouldn't
> restoring the session restore the links to the active process
within
> that session?
>
> I can get the processes by id, but I'm not sure grabbing a subflow
> works in this example, I really want the session:
>
> ProcessInstance processClm = session.getProcessInstance(1);
>
> Is there actually some other way to retrieve the processes from
> reloaded session?
>
> As always, thanks for the help!
>
> Bill
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> rules-users mailing list
> rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
>
Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm
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4 comments
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participants (2)
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Kris Verlaenen