Re: [hibernate-dev] HHH-6942 - Envers Collection revision entries don't include deletes on detached entity saveOrUpdate

Yes, https://hibernate.onjira.com/browse/HHH-3088 describes the behavior. From the perspective of hibernate-core module this cannot be easily resolved. Fetching related objects would influence performance. But from Envers point of view, we might actually execute a query and produce a warning message, don't you think? Just to clarify: What I intended to do was to experiment with EnversPreCollectionRemoveEventListenerImpl.onPreRemoveCollection() method: CollectionEntry collectionEntry = getCollectionEntry( event ); if (collectionEntry == null) { // Load collection and try to obtain collection entry once again... } I'm not sure if this resolves HHH-6942, but I wanted to give it a try. I have initialized a collection by executing: event.getSession().getFactory().getCollectionPersister("[ROLE]").initialize(event.getAffectedOwnerIdOrNull(), event.getSession()); Of course I had to hardcode the role parameter, but it was just a proof of concept. Unfortunately produced collection entry has empty loadedPersister attribute so the code crashes while executing BaseEnversCollectionEventListener.onCollectionAction() method. That is why I've asked how to manually initialize collection inside PreCollectionRemoveEventListener.onPreRemoveCollection() implementation. Regards, Lukasz