11:39 a.m.
Hi,
Please bear with me, I am relatively new to the world of Drools and have a
question. I am hoping it will be a simple issue.
First let me frame my planned implementation at a high level. I am hoping
to use Drools as a real time service enabled quote validation tool.
Facts representing products and attributes will be loaded into a stateful
knowledge session upon boot (using a piece of Java that loads these as facts
from our product DB).
The front-end application will allow users to build up quotes consisting of
quote lines that make references to these products. Once the quote is built
they will press a "Validate" button. This will call a webservice that will:
1) Insert the quote details as facts into the knowledge session
2) Run a "rule flow" to validate the quote against the product facts
3) The rules will insert validation results as facts tagged against the
quote
4) QUERY for the validation results
5) Retract the facts for the quote (inc validation results)
6) Send the validation results back as a response to the webservice call
My first question is how to implement step 4 --> how to physically query for
the validation results pertaining to that specific quote. Any help here
would be greatly appreciated.
My second question relates to concurrency. As this is a quote validation
tool there will be multiple users validating quotes so we will get
concurrent validation requests.
What is the recommended manner of dealing with concurrent rule requests
within a stateful knowledge session. If 2 people attempt to validate a
different quote at the same time we will have two quotes within the
knowledge session together with all of the product facts. Is drools capable
of running two concurrent rule flows against the knowledge session, each
referencing a different quote or would we need to instantiate 2 knowledge
sessions, or even deal with the matter in a serial manner placing the 2nd
quote validation flow on hold until the first completes?
Any help/pointers would be great. I am hoping someone out there has
attempted to use Drools in a similar manner :)
Many Thanks
Ste
--
View this message in context:
http://drools.46999.n3.nabble.com/Query-for-a-fact-and-concurrent-rule-ex...
Sent from the Drools: User forum mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
12:31 p.m.
Does each quote validation exercise enrich the StatefulKnowledgeSession
with other facts that could influence validation of other quotes?
If not probably using a StatefulKnowledgeSession per HTTP request might be
more simple (with the KnowledgeBase as an application scoped variable).
Regarding retrieval of results, there are a couple of options that spring
to mind:-
- Look at using a Global to collate results.
- Look at using a Query (
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5872215/how-do-i-add-facts-to-working-...
)
With kind regards,
Mike
On 2 May 2012 10:39, stelomax <stephen.lomax(a)mattelli.com> wrote:
Hi,
Please bear with me, I am relatively new to the world of Drools and have a
question. I am hoping it will be a simple issue.
First let me frame my planned implementation at a high level. I am hoping
to use Drools as a real time service enabled quote validation tool.
Facts representing products and attributes will be loaded into a stateful
knowledge session upon boot (using a piece of Java that loads these as
facts
from our product DB).
The front-end application will allow users to build up quotes consisting of
quote lines that make references to these products. Once the quote is
built
they will press a "Validate" button. This will call a webservice that
will:
1) Insert the quote details as facts into the knowledge session
2) Run a "rule flow" to validate the quote against the product facts
3) The rules will insert validation results as facts tagged against the
quote
4) QUERY for the validation results
5) Retract the facts for the quote (inc validation results)
6) Send the validation results back as a response to the webservice call
My first question is how to implement step 4 --> how to physically query
for
the validation results pertaining to that specific quote. Any help here
would be greatly appreciated.
My second question relates to concurrency. As this is a quote validation
tool there will be multiple users validating quotes so we will get
concurrent validation requests.
What is the recommended manner of dealing with concurrent rule requests
within a stateful knowledge session. If 2 people attempt to validate a
different quote at the same time we will have two quotes within the
knowledge session together with all of the product facts. Is drools
capable
of running two concurrent rule flows against the knowledge session, each
referencing a different quote or would we need to instantiate 2 knowledge
sessions, or even deal with the matter in a serial manner placing the 2nd
quote validation flow on hold until the first completes?
Any help/pointers would be great. I am hoping someone out there has
attempted to use Drools in a similar manner :)
Many Thanks
Ste
--
View this message in context:
http://drools.46999.n3.nabble.com/Query-for-a-fact-and-concurrent-rule-ex...
Sent from the Drools: User forum mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
12:58 p.m.
Hi Mike,
Each quote does not enrich the session, we were actively looking to remove the quote at
the end of the session to prevent it growing as we were just comparing the quote to the
core product attribute facts.
What is the performance hit in launching a Stateful knowledge session with say 10,000
facts, would it make the web service call slow?
Thanks very much for the help on the query also…we will look into that.
Kind Regards
Ste
On 2 May 2012, at 11:31, Michael Anstis wrote:
Does each quote validation exercise enrich the
StatefulKnowledgeSession with other facts that could influence validation of other
quotes?
If not probably using a StatefulKnowledgeSession per HTTP request might be more simple
(with the KnowledgeBase as an application scoped variable).
Regarding retrieval of results, there are a couple of options that spring to mind:-
Look at using a Global to collate results.
Look at using a Query
(http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5872215/how-do-i-add-facts-to-working-...)
With kind regards,
Mike
On 2 May 2012 10:39, stelomax <stephen.lomax(a)mattelli.com> wrote:
Hi,
Please bear with me, I am relatively new to the world of Drools and have a
question. I am hoping it will be a simple issue.
First let me frame my planned implementation at a high level. I am hoping
to use Drools as a real time service enabled quote validation tool.
Facts representing products and attributes will be loaded into a stateful
knowledge session upon boot (using a piece of Java that loads these as facts
from our product DB).
The front-end application will allow users to build up quotes consisting of
quote lines that make references to these products. Once the quote is built
they will press a "Validate" button. This will call a webservice that will:
1) Insert the quote details as facts into the knowledge session
2) Run a "rule flow" to validate the quote against the product facts
3) The rules will insert validation results as facts tagged against the
quote
4) QUERY for the validation results
5) Retract the facts for the quote (inc validation results)
6) Send the validation results back as a response to the webservice call
My first question is how to implement step 4 --> how to physically query for
the validation results pertaining to that specific quote. Any help here
would be greatly appreciated.
My second question relates to concurrency. As this is a quote validation
tool there will be multiple users validating quotes so we will get
concurrent validation requests.
What is the recommended manner of dealing with concurrent rule requests
within a stateful knowledge session. If 2 people attempt to validate a
different quote at the same time we will have two quotes within the
knowledge session together with all of the product facts. Is drools capable
of running two concurrent rule flows against the knowledge session, each
referencing a different quote or would we need to instantiate 2 knowledge
sessions, or even deal with the matter in a serial manner placing the 2nd
quote validation flow on hold until the first completes?
Any help/pointers would be great. I am hoping someone out there has
attempted to use Drools in a similar manner :)
Many Thanks
Ste
--
View this message in context:
http://drools.46999.n3.nabble.com/Query-for-a-fact-and-concurrent-rule-ex...
Sent from the Drools: User forum mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
1:08 p.m.
That's a possibility, but it'd depend on your rules.
As a thought, you could serialise the initialised StatelessKnowledgeSession
into a byte[] (cached at application scope) and deserialise with each
web-service call.
I would wait to see if Mark Proctor, Edson Tirelli or community members
have other thoughts on use of a single StatefulKnowledgeSession.
IIRC it is meant to be thread-safe but think people have reported problems
in the past. Recently:
http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/rules-dev/2012-February/003857.html
With kind regards,
Mike
On 2 May 2012 11:58, Stephen Lomax <stephen.lomax(a)mattelli.com> wrote:
Hi Mike,
Each quote does not enrich the session, we were actively looking to remove
the quote at the end of the session to prevent it growing as we were just
comparing the quote to the core product attribute facts.
What is the performance hit in launching a Stateful knowledge session with
say 10,000 facts, would it make the web service call slow?
Thanks very much for the help on the query also…we will look into that.
Kind Regards
Ste
On 2 May 2012, at 11:31, Michael Anstis wrote:
Does each quote validation exercise enrich the StatefulKnowledgeSession
with other facts that could influence validation of other quotes?
If not probably using a StatefulKnowledgeSession per HTTP request might be
more simple (with the KnowledgeBase as an application scoped variable).
Regarding retrieval of results, there are a couple of options that spring
to mind:-
- Look at using a Global to collate results.
- Look at using a Query (
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5872215/how-do-i-add-facts-to-working-...
)
With kind regards,
Mike
On 2 May 2012 10:39, stelomax <stephen.lomax(a)mattelli.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Please bear with me, I am relatively new to the world of Drools and have a
> question. I am hoping it will be a simple issue.
>
> First let me frame my planned implementation at a high level. I am hoping
> to use Drools as a real time service enabled quote validation tool.
>
> Facts representing products and attributes will be loaded into a stateful
> knowledge session upon boot (using a piece of Java that loads these as
> facts
> from our product DB).
>
> The front-end application will allow users to build up quotes consisting
> of
> quote lines that make references to these products. Once the quote is
> built
> they will press a "Validate" button. This will call a webservice that
> will:
>
> 1) Insert the quote details as facts into the knowledge session
> 2) Run a "rule flow" to validate the quote against the product facts
> 3) The rules will insert validation results as facts tagged against the
> quote
> 4) QUERY for the validation results
> 5) Retract the facts for the quote (inc validation results)
> 6) Send the validation results back as a response to the webservice call
>
> My first question is how to implement step 4 --> how to physically query
> for
> the validation results pertaining to that specific quote. Any help here
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> My second question relates to concurrency. As this is a quote validation
> tool there will be multiple users validating quotes so we will get
> concurrent validation requests.
>
> What is the recommended manner of dealing with concurrent rule requests
> within a stateful knowledge session. If 2 people attempt to validate a
> different quote at the same time we will have two quotes within the
> knowledge session together with all of the product facts. Is drools
> capable
> of running two concurrent rule flows against the knowledge session, each
> referencing a different quote or would we need to instantiate 2 knowledge
> sessions, or even deal with the matter in a serial manner placing the 2nd
> quote validation flow on hold until the first completes?
>
> Any help/pointers would be great. I am hoping someone out there has
> attempted to use Drools in a similar manner :)
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Ste
>
> --
> View this message in context:
>
http://drools.46999.n3.nabble.com/Query-for-a-fact-and-concurrent-rule-ex...
> Sent from the Drools: User forum mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> rules-users mailing list
> rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
>
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
1:28 p.m.
Hi Mike,
Many thanks for that..we had previously thought of serialising to file but thought the
purpose of the StatefulKnowledgeSession was to keep it live in memory continuously, rather
than instantiating a new session with each web service call.
My concern is that if we instantiate a new session with each web service call the memory
required will increase massively (if we have many concurrent requests). Is there a way of
serving multiple concurrent requests against the same session to remove that concern.
Many thanks for your help with this..it is very much appreciated.
Ste
.
On 2 May 2012, at 12:08, Michael Anstis wrote:
That's a possibility, but it'd depend on your rules.
As a thought, you could serialise the initialised StatelessKnowledgeSession into a byte[]
(cached at application scope) and deserialise with each web-service call.
I would wait to see if Mark Proctor, Edson Tirelli or community members have other
thoughts on use of a single StatefulKnowledgeSession.
IIRC it is meant to be thread-safe but think people have reported problems in the past.
Recently: http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/rules-dev/2012-February/003857.html
With kind regards,
Mike
On 2 May 2012 11:58, Stephen Lomax <stephen.lomax(a)mattelli.com> wrote:
Hi Mike,
Each quote does not enrich the session, we were actively looking to remove the quote at
the end of the session to prevent it growing as we were just comparing the quote to the
core product attribute facts.
What is the performance hit in launching a Stateful knowledge session with say 10,000
facts, would it make the web service call slow?
Thanks very much for the help on the query also…we will look into that.
Kind Regards
Ste
On 2 May 2012, at 11:31, Michael Anstis wrote:
> Does each quote validation exercise enrich the StatefulKnowledgeSession with other
facts that could influence validation of other quotes?
>
> If not probably using a StatefulKnowledgeSession per HTTP request might be more
simple (with the KnowledgeBase as an application scoped variable).
>
> Regarding retrieval of results, there are a couple of options that spring to mind:-
> Look at using a Global to collate results.
> Look at using a Query
(http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5872215/how-do-i-add-facts-to-working-...)
> With kind regards,
>
> Mike
>
> On 2 May 2012 10:39, stelomax <stephen.lomax(a)mattelli.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Please bear with me, I am relatively new to the world of Drools and have a
> question. I am hoping it will be a simple issue.
>
> First let me frame my planned implementation at a high level. I am hoping
> to use Drools as a real time service enabled quote validation tool.
>
> Facts representing products and attributes will be loaded into a stateful
> knowledge session upon boot (using a piece of Java that loads these as facts
> from our product DB).
>
> The front-end application will allow users to build up quotes consisting of
> quote lines that make references to these products. Once the quote is built
> they will press a "Validate" button. This will call a webservice that
will:
>
> 1) Insert the quote details as facts into the knowledge session
> 2) Run a "rule flow" to validate the quote against the product facts
> 3) The rules will insert validation results as facts tagged against the
> quote
> 4) QUERY for the validation results
> 5) Retract the facts for the quote (inc validation results)
> 6) Send the validation results back as a response to the webservice call
>
> My first question is how to implement step 4 --> how to physically query for
> the validation results pertaining to that specific quote. Any help here
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> My second question relates to concurrency. As this is a quote validation
> tool there will be multiple users validating quotes so we will get
> concurrent validation requests.
>
> What is the recommended manner of dealing with concurrent rule requests
> within a stateful knowledge session. If 2 people attempt to validate a
> different quote at the same time we will have two quotes within the
> knowledge session together with all of the product facts. Is drools capable
> of running two concurrent rule flows against the knowledge session, each
> referencing a different quote or would we need to instantiate 2 knowledge
> sessions, or even deal with the matter in a serial manner placing the 2nd
> quote validation flow on hold until the first completes?
>
> Any help/pointers would be great. I am hoping someone out there has
> attempted to use Drools in a similar manner :)
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Ste
>
> --
> View this message in context:
http://drools.46999.n3.nabble.com/Query-for-a-fact-and-concurrent-rule-ex...
> Sent from the Drools: User forum mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> rules-users mailing list
> rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
>
> _______________________________________________
> rules-users mailing list
> rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
4:49 p.m.
I would suggest making your service stateless and run the service in
multiple JVMs to alleviate performance concerns. You will be able to scale
and also not have to worry about cramming everything into a
StatefulKnowledgeSession and worry abt thead-safety.
From: Stephen Lomax <stephen.lomax(a)mattelli.com>
To: Rules Users List <rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org>,
Date: 05/02/2012 04:28 AM
Subject: Re: [rules-users] Query for a fact, and concurrent rule
execution
Sent by: rules-users-bounces(a)lists.jboss.org
Hi Mike,
Many thanks for that..we had previously thought of serialising to file but
thought the purpose of the StatefulKnowledgeSession was to keep it live in
memory continuously, rather than instantiating a new session with each web
service call.
My concern is that if we instantiate a new session with each web service
call the memory required will increase massively (if we have many
concurrent requests). Is there a way of serving multiple concurrent
requests against the same session to remove that concern.
Many thanks for your help with this..it is very much appreciated.
Ste
.
On 2 May 2012, at 12:08, Michael Anstis wrote:
That's a possibility, but it'd depend on your rules.
As a thought, you could serialise the initialised
StatelessKnowledgeSession into a byte[] (cached at application scope) and
deserialise with each web-service call.
I would wait to see if Mark Proctor, Edson Tirelli or community members
have other thoughts on use of a single StatefulKnowledgeSession.
IIRC it is meant to be thread-safe but think people have reported problems
in the past. Recently:
http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/rules-dev/2012-February/003857.html
With kind regards,
Mike
On 2 May 2012 11:58, Stephen Lomax <stephen.lomax(a)mattelli.com> wrote:
Hi Mike,
Each quote does not enrich the session, we were actively looking to remove
the quote at the end of the session to prevent it growing as we were just
comparing the quote to the core product attribute facts.
What is the performance hit in launching a Stateful knowledge session with
say 10,000 facts, would it make the web service call slow?
Thanks very much for the help on the query also…we will look into that.
Kind Regards
Ste
On 2 May 2012, at 11:31, Michael Anstis wrote:
Does each quote validation exercise enrich the StatefulKnowledgeSession
with other facts that could influence validation of other quotes?
If not probably using a StatefulKnowledgeSession per HTTP request might be
more simple (with the KnowledgeBase as an application scoped variable).
Regarding retrieval of results, there are a couple of options that spring
to mind:-
Look at using a Global to collate results.
Look at using a Query (
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5872215/how-do-i-add-facts-to-working-...
)
With kind regards,
Mike
On 2 May 2012 10:39, stelomax <stephen.lomax(a)mattelli.com> wrote:
Hi,
Please bear with me, I am relatively new to the world of Drools and have a
question. I am hoping it will be a simple issue.
First let me frame my planned implementation at a high level. I am hoping
to use Drools as a real time service enabled quote validation tool.
Facts representing products and attributes will be loaded into a stateful
knowledge session upon boot (using a piece of Java that loads these as
facts
from our product DB).
The front-end application will allow users to build up quotes consisting
of
quote lines that make references to these products. Once the quote is
built
they will press a "Validate" button. This will call a webservice that
will:
1) Insert the quote details as facts into the knowledge session
2) Run a "rule flow" to validate the quote against the product facts
3) The rules will insert validation results as facts tagged against the
quote
4) QUERY for the validation results
5) Retract the facts for the quote (inc validation results)
6) Send the validation results back as a response to the webservice call
My first question is how to implement step 4 --> how to physically query
for
the validation results pertaining to that specific quote. Any help here
would be greatly appreciated.
My second question relates to concurrency. As this is a quote validation
tool there will be multiple users validating quotes so we will get
concurrent validation requests.
What is the recommended manner of dealing with concurrent rule requests
within a stateful knowledge session. If 2 people attempt to validate a
different quote at the same time we will have two quotes within the
knowledge session together with all of the product facts. Is drools
capable
of running two concurrent rule flows against the knowledge session, each
referencing a different quote or would we need to instantiate 2 knowledge
sessions, or even deal with the matter in a serial manner placing the 2nd
quote validation flow on hold until the first completes?
Any help/pointers would be great. I am hoping someone out there has
attempted to use Drools in a similar manner :)
Many Thanks
Ste
--
View this message in context:
http://drools.46999.n3.nabble.com/Query-for-a-fact-and-concurrent-rule-ex...
Sent from the Drools: User forum mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
-----------------------------------------
The information contained in this communication (including any
attachments hereto) is confidential and is intended solely for the
personal and confidential use of the individual or entity to whom
it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this
communication in error and that any review, dissemination, copying,
or unauthorized use of this information, or the taking of any
action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original
message. Thank you
6:09 p.m.
Loading a stateless knowledge session with ~10k facts and the one (or
few) transaction fact(s) for a single transaction isn't economic.
I'd benchmark the costs for inserting the transaction fact(s) into a
statefeul session, run fireAllRules(), returning the result and
removing the debris in a thread. This should give you a good
indication how many of these you can do per second, and the potential
delay for concurrent requests when transactions are done in turn.
-W
On 02/05/2012, GPatel(a)tsys.com <GPatel(a)tsys.com> wrote:
I would suggest making your service stateless and run the service in
multiple JVMs to alleviate performance concerns. You will be able to scale
and also not have to worry about cramming everything into a
StatefulKnowledgeSession and worry abt thead-safety.
From: Stephen Lomax <stephen.lomax(a)mattelli.com>
To: Rules Users List <rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org>,
Date: 05/02/2012 04:28 AM
Subject: Re: [rules-users] Query for a fact, and concurrent rule
execution
Sent by: rules-users-bounces(a)lists.jboss.org
Hi Mike,
Many thanks for that..we had previously thought of serialising to file but
thought the purpose of the StatefulKnowledgeSession was to keep it live in
memory continuously, rather than instantiating a new session with each web
service call.
My concern is that if we instantiate a new session with each web service
call the memory required will increase massively (if we have many
concurrent requests). Is there a way of serving multiple concurrent
requests against the same session to remove that concern.
Many thanks for your help with this..it is very much appreciated.
Ste
.
On 2 May 2012, at 12:08, Michael Anstis wrote:
That's a possibility, but it'd depend on your rules.
As a thought, you could serialise the initialised
StatelessKnowledgeSession into a byte[] (cached at application scope) and
deserialise with each web-service call.
I would wait to see if Mark Proctor, Edson Tirelli or community members
have other thoughts on use of a single StatefulKnowledgeSession.
IIRC it is meant to be thread-safe but think people have reported problems
in the past. Recently:
http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/rules-dev/2012-February/003857.html
With kind regards,
Mike
On 2 May 2012 11:58, Stephen Lomax <stephen.lomax(a)mattelli.com> wrote:
Hi Mike,
Each quote does not enrich the session, we were actively looking to remove
the quote at the end of the session to prevent it growing as we were just
comparing the quote to the core product attribute facts.
What is the performance hit in launching a Stateful knowledge session with
say 10,000 facts, would it make the web service call slow?
Thanks very much for the help on the query also…we will look into that.
Kind Regards
Ste
On 2 May 2012, at 11:31, Michael Anstis wrote:
Does each quote validation exercise enrich the StatefulKnowledgeSession
with other facts that could influence validation of other quotes?
If not probably using a StatefulKnowledgeSession per HTTP request might be
more simple (with the KnowledgeBase as an application scoped variable).
Regarding retrieval of results, there are a couple of options that spring
to mind:-
Look at using a Global to collate results.
Look at using a Query (
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5872215/how-do-i-add-facts-to-working-...
)
With kind regards,
Mike
On 2 May 2012 10:39, stelomax <stephen.lomax(a)mattelli.com> wrote:
Hi,
Please bear with me, I am relatively new to the world of Drools and have a
question. I am hoping it will be a simple issue.
First let me frame my planned implementation at a high level. I am hoping
to use Drools as a real time service enabled quote validation tool.
Facts representing products and attributes will be loaded into a stateful
knowledge session upon boot (using a piece of Java that loads these as
facts
from our product DB).
The front-end application will allow users to build up quotes consisting
of
quote lines that make references to these products. Once the quote is
built
they will press a "Validate" button. This will call a webservice that
will:
1) Insert the quote details as facts into the knowledge session
2) Run a "rule flow" to validate the quote against the product facts
3) The rules will insert validation results as facts tagged against the
quote
4) QUERY for the validation results
5) Retract the facts for the quote (inc validation results)
6) Send the validation results back as a response to the webservice call
My first question is how to implement step 4 --> how to physically query
for
the validation results pertaining to that specific quote. Any help here
would be greatly appreciated.
My second question relates to concurrency. As this is a quote validation
tool there will be multiple users validating quotes so we will get
concurrent validation requests.
What is the recommended manner of dealing with concurrent rule requests
within a stateful knowledge session. If 2 people attempt to validate a
different quote at the same time we will have two quotes within the
knowledge session together with all of the product facts. Is drools
capable
of running two concurrent rule flows against the knowledge session, each
referencing a different quote or would we need to instantiate 2 knowledge
sessions, or even deal with the matter in a serial manner placing the 2nd
quote validation flow on hold until the first completes?
Any help/pointers would be great. I am hoping someone out there has
attempted to use Drools in a similar manner :)
Many Thanks
Ste
--
View this message in context:
http://drools.46999.n3.nabble.com/Query-for-a-fact-and-concurrent-rule-ex...
Sent from the Drools: User forum mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
-----------------------------------------
The information contained in this communication (including any
attachments hereto) is confidential and is intended solely for the
personal and confidential use of the individual or entity to whom
it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this
communication in error and that any review, dissemination, copying,
or unauthorized use of this information, or the taking of any
action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original
message. Thank you
6:23 p.m.
Indeed! And there's no reason you couldn't do the procedure below with multiple
concurrent stateful sessions. In fact, this might be the best way, as when the support
facts change you could create new sessions and not disrupt the service. (And if the
support facts are immutable and not changed by the rules you should share them between
sessions in the same JVM, saving memory and DB load overhead.)
--- On Wed, 5/2/12, Wolfgang Laun <wolfgang.laun(a)gmail.com> wrote:
From: Wolfgang Laun <wolfgang.laun(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [rules-users] Query for a fact, and concurrent rule execution
To: "Rules Users List" <rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org>
Date: Wednesday, May 2, 2012, 11:09 AM
Loading a stateless knowledge session
with ~10k facts and the one (or
few) transaction fact(s) for a single transaction isn't
economic.
I'd benchmark the costs for inserting the transaction
fact(s) into a
statefeul session, run fireAllRules(), returning the result
and
removing the debris in a thread. This should give you a
good
indication how many of these you can do per second, and the
potential
delay for concurrent requests when transactions are done in
turn.
-W
On 02/05/2012, GPatel(a)tsys.com
<GPatel(a)tsys.com>
wrote:
> I would suggest making your service stateless and run
the service in
> multiple JVMs to alleviate performance concerns. You
will be able to scale
> and also not have to worry about cramming everything
into a
> StatefulKnowledgeSession and worry abt thead-safety.
>
>
>
> From: Stephen Lomax <stephen.lomax(a)mattelli.com>
> To: Rules Users List <rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org>,
> Date: 05/02/2012 04:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [rules-users]
Query for a fact, and concurrent rule
> execution
> Sent by: rules-users-bounces(a)lists.jboss.org
>
>
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> Many thanks for that..we had previously thought of
serialising to file but
> thought the purpose of the StatefulKnowledgeSession was
to keep it live in
> memory continuously, rather than instantiating a new
session with each web
> service call.
>
>
> My concern is that if we instantiate a new session with
each web service
> call the memory required will increase massively (if we
have many
> concurrent requests). Is there a way of serving
multiple concurrent
> requests against the same session to remove that
concern.
>
> Many thanks for your help with this..it is very much
appreciated.
>
> Ste
>
>
> .
> On 2 May 2012, at 12:08, Michael Anstis wrote:
>
> That's a possibility, but it'd depend on your rules.
>
> As a thought, you could serialise the initialised
> StatelessKnowledgeSession into a byte[] (cached at
application scope) and
> deserialise with each web-service call.
>
> I would wait to see if Mark Proctor, Edson Tirelli or
community members
> have other thoughts on use of a single
StatefulKnowledgeSession.
>
> IIRC it is meant to be thread-safe but think people
have reported problems
> in the past. Recently:
> http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/rules-dev/2012-February/003857.html
>
> With kind regards,
>
> Mike
>
> On 2 May 2012 11:58, Stephen Lomax <stephen.lomax(a)mattelli.com>
wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> Each quote does not enrich the session, we were
actively looking to remove
> the quote at the end of the session to prevent it
growing as we were just
> comparing the quote to the core product attribute
facts.
>
> What is the performance hit in launching a Stateful
knowledge session with
> say 10,000 facts, would it make the web service call
slow?
>
> Thanks very much for the help on the query also…we
will look into that.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Ste
>
> On 2 May 2012, at 11:31, Michael Anstis wrote:
>
> Does each quote validation exercise enrich the
StatefulKnowledgeSession
> with other facts that could influence validation of
other quotes?
>
> If not probably using a StatefulKnowledgeSession per
HTTP request might be
> more simple (with the KnowledgeBase as an application
scoped variable).
>
> Regarding retrieval of results, there are a couple of
options that spring
> to mind:-
> Look at using a Global to collate results.
> Look at using a Query (
>
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5872215/how-do-i-add-facts-to-working-...
> )
> With kind regards,
>
> Mike
>
> On 2 May 2012 10:39, stelomax <stephen.lomax(a)mattelli.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Please bear with me, I am relatively new to the world
of Drools and have a
> question. I am hoping it will be a simple issue.
>
> First let me frame my planned implementation at a high
level. I am hoping
> to use Drools as a real time service enabled quote
validation tool.
>
> Facts representing products and attributes will be
loaded into a stateful
> knowledge session upon boot (using a piece of Java that
loads these as
> facts
> from our product DB).
>
> The front-end application will allow users to build up
quotes consisting
> of
> quote lines that make references to these
products. Once the quote is
> built
> they will press a "Validate" button. This will
call a webservice that
> will:
>
> 1) Insert the quote details as facts into the knowledge
session
> 2) Run a "rule flow" to validate the quote against the
product facts
> 3) The rules will insert validation results as facts
tagged against the
> quote
> 4) QUERY for the validation results
> 5) Retract the facts for the quote (inc validation
results)
> 6) Send the validation results back as a response to
the webservice call
>
> My first question is how to implement step 4 --> how
to physically query
> for
> the validation results pertaining to that specific
quote. Any help here
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> My second question relates to concurrency. As
this is a quote validation
> tool there will be multiple users validating quotes so
we will get
> concurrent validation requests.
>
> What is the recommended manner of dealing with
concurrent rule requests
> within a stateful knowledge session. If 2 people
attempt to validate a
> different quote at the same time we will have two
quotes within the
> knowledge session together with all of the product
facts. Is drools
> capable
> of running two concurrent rule flows against the
knowledge session, each
> referencing a different quote or would we need to
instantiate 2 knowledge
> sessions, or even deal with the matter in a serial
manner placing the 2nd
> quote validation flow on hold until the first
completes?
>
> Any help/pointers would be great. I am hoping
someone out there has
> attempted to use Drools in a similar manner :)
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Ste
>
> --
> View this message in context:
>
http://drools.46999.n3.nabble.com/Query-for-a-fact-and-concurrent-rule-ex...
>
> Sent from the Drools: User forum mailing list archive
at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> rules-users mailing list
> rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
>
> _______________________________________________
> rules-users mailing list
> rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rules-users mailing list
> rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rules-users mailing list
> rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
> _______________________________________________
> rules-users mailing list
> rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> The information contained in this communication
(including any
> attachments hereto) is confidential and is intended
solely for the
> personal and confidential use of the individual or
entity to whom
> it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not
the intended
> recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to
the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that you have
received this
> communication in error and that any review,
dissemination, copying,
> or unauthorized use of this information, or the taking
of any
> action in reliance on the contents of this information
is strictly
> prohibited. If you have received this communication in
error,
> please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the
original
> message. Thank you
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
6:54 p.m.
Hi Wolfgang
Thanks for the response.
We will build a quick environment with test facts and run a benchmark as you suggest. If
we can fire these through quick enough then this sounds like the preferred approach.
Then my next issue will be how to allow users to insert product updates through the day
and release new price lists without impacting users calling the validation service ;-/
Thanks for all the help
Ste
On 2 May 2012, at 17:09, Wolfgang Laun wrote:
Loading a stateless knowledge session with ~10k facts and the one
(or
few) transaction fact(s) for a single transaction isn't economic.
I'd benchmark the costs for inserting the transaction fact(s) into a
statefeul session, run fireAllRules(), returning the result and
removing the debris in a thread. This should give you a good
indication how many of these you can do per second, and the potential
delay for concurrent requests when transactions are done in turn.
-W
On 02/05/2012, GPatel(a)tsys.com <GPatel(a)tsys.com> wrote:
> I would suggest making your service stateless and run the service in
> multiple JVMs to alleviate performance concerns. You will be able to scale
> and also not have to worry about cramming everything into a
> StatefulKnowledgeSession and worry abt thead-safety.
>
>
>
> From: Stephen Lomax <stephen.lomax(a)mattelli.com>
> To: Rules Users List <rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org>,
> Date: 05/02/2012 04:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [rules-users] Query for a fact, and concurrent rule
> execution
> Sent by: rules-users-bounces(a)lists.jboss.org
>
>
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> Many thanks for that..we had previously thought of serialising to file but
> thought the purpose of the StatefulKnowledgeSession was to keep it live in
> memory continuously, rather than instantiating a new session with each web
> service call.
>
>
> My concern is that if we instantiate a new session with each web service
> call the memory required will increase massively (if we have many
> concurrent requests). Is there a way of serving multiple concurrent
> requests against the same session to remove that concern.
>
> Many thanks for your help with this..it is very much appreciated.
>
> Ste
>
>
> .
> On 2 May 2012, at 12:08, Michael Anstis wrote:
>
> That's a possibility, but it'd depend on your rules.
>
> As a thought, you could serialise the initialised
> StatelessKnowledgeSession into a byte[] (cached at application scope) and
> deserialise with each web-service call.
>
> I would wait to see if Mark Proctor, Edson Tirelli or community members
> have other thoughts on use of a single StatefulKnowledgeSession.
>
> IIRC it is meant to be thread-safe but think people have reported problems
> in the past. Recently:
> http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/rules-dev/2012-February/003857.html
>
> With kind regards,
>
> Mike
>
> On 2 May 2012 11:58, Stephen Lomax <stephen.lomax(a)mattelli.com> wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> Each quote does not enrich the session, we were actively looking to remove
> the quote at the end of the session to prevent it growing as we were just
> comparing the quote to the core product attribute facts.
>
> What is the performance hit in launching a Stateful knowledge session with
> say 10,000 facts, would it make the web service call slow?
>
> Thanks very much for the help on the query also…we will look into that.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Ste
>
> On 2 May 2012, at 11:31, Michael Anstis wrote:
>
> Does each quote validation exercise enrich the StatefulKnowledgeSession
> with other facts that could influence validation of other quotes?
>
> If not probably using a StatefulKnowledgeSession per HTTP request might be
> more simple (with the KnowledgeBase as an application scoped variable).
>
> Regarding retrieval of results, there are a couple of options that spring
> to mind:-
> Look at using a Global to collate results.
> Look at using a Query (
>
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5872215/how-do-i-add-facts-to-working-...
> )
> With kind regards,
>
> Mike
>
> On 2 May 2012 10:39, stelomax <stephen.lomax(a)mattelli.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Please bear with me, I am relatively new to the world of Drools and have a
> question. I am hoping it will be a simple issue.
>
> First let me frame my planned implementation at a high level. I am hoping
> to use Drools as a real time service enabled quote validation tool.
>
> Facts representing products and attributes will be loaded into a stateful
> knowledge session upon boot (using a piece of Java that loads these as
> facts
> from our product DB).
>
> The front-end application will allow users to build up quotes consisting
> of
> quote lines that make references to these products. Once the quote is
> built
> they will press a "Validate" button. This will call a webservice that
> will:
>
> 1) Insert the quote details as facts into the knowledge session
> 2) Run a "rule flow" to validate the quote against the product facts
> 3) The rules will insert validation results as facts tagged against the
> quote
> 4) QUERY for the validation results
> 5) Retract the facts for the quote (inc validation results)
> 6) Send the validation results back as a response to the webservice call
>
> My first question is how to implement step 4 --> how to physically query
> for
> the validation results pertaining to that specific quote. Any help here
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> My second question relates to concurrency. As this is a quote validation
> tool there will be multiple users validating quotes so we will get
> concurrent validation requests.
>
> What is the recommended manner of dealing with concurrent rule requests
> within a stateful knowledge session. If 2 people attempt to validate a
> different quote at the same time we will have two quotes within the
> knowledge session together with all of the product facts. Is drools
> capable
> of running two concurrent rule flows against the knowledge session, each
> referencing a different quote or would we need to instantiate 2 knowledge
> sessions, or even deal with the matter in a serial manner placing the 2nd
> quote validation flow on hold until the first completes?
>
> Any help/pointers would be great. I am hoping someone out there has
> attempted to use Drools in a similar manner :)
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Ste
>
> --
> View this message in context:
>
http://drools.46999.n3.nabble.com/Query-for-a-fact-and-concurrent-rule-ex...
>
> Sent from the Drools: User forum mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> rules-users mailing list
> rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
>
> _______________________________________________
> rules-users mailing list
> rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rules-users mailing list
> rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rules-users mailing list
> rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
> _______________________________________________
> rules-users mailing list
> rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> The information contained in this communication (including any
> attachments hereto) is confidential and is intended solely for the
> personal and confidential use of the individual or entity to whom
> it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this
> communication in error and that any review, dissemination, copying,
> or unauthorized use of this information, or the taking of any
> action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly
> prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
> please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original
> message. Thank you
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
4438
days inactive
4438
days old
8 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
GPatel＠tsys.com -
Greg Barton -
Michael Anstis -
stelomax -
Stephen Lomax
-
Wolfgang Laun