Hi, I was discussing with Steve on the HipChat page yesterday that we should probably enable these forum options: Enable queued posts: Ability to put registered users posts to post approval if their post count is lower than the specified value below. This setting has no effect on the permission setting for post/topic approval. Maximum post count for queued posts: If queued posts is enabled, this is the post count the user need to reach in order to post without post approval. If the users post count is below this number, the post is stored in the queue automatically.This way we can make sure spam won't reach the forum because we have to approve all posts and active users can get their post approved immediately.

We might want to suggest users to use StackOverflow because it's a very active community there are we could focus on unanswered questions there too. Maybe we can change the hibernate.org site to display the SO tag link before our forum. This way we might redirect some posts to SO instead of the forum. This can decrease the time to get a response, and many easy questions would get answered by other SO users too.

Vlad _______________________________________________ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

Hi, I agree that a value of 1 is sufficient too. Once a user posted a Hibernate-related question, there is no way he will want to spam the forum.

I also think we should keep the forum it's a way to reach the actual dev team. On SO, you get answers for the community.

So both the forum and SO are important and we should blend them, rather than pick one over the other. Vlad On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 12:42 AM, Brett Meyer <brett(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > On 12/08/2015 02:46 AM, Vlad Mihalcea wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I was discussing with Steve on the HipChat page yesterday that we should > > probably enable these forum options: > > Enable queued posts: > > Ability to put registered users posts to post approval if their post > count > > is lower than the specified value below. This setting has no effect on > the > > permission setting for post/topic approval. Maximum post count for queued > > posts: > > If queued posts is enabled, this is the post count the user need to reach > > in order to post without post approval. If the users post count is below > > this number, the post is stored in the queue automatically.This way we > can > > make sure spam won't reach the forum because we have to approve all posts > > and active users can get their post approved immediately. > +1 from me. Although, I'd suggest setting that post count extremely > low. Even "1" is likely sufficient, considering the spammers always > seem to open a new account and post a brand new topic. > > We might want to suggest users to use StackOverflow because it's a very > > active community there are we could focus on unanswered questions there > > too. Maybe we can change the hibernate.org site to display the SO tag > link > > before our forum. This way we might redirect some posts to SO instead of > > the forum. This can decrease the time to get a response, and many easy > > questions would get answered by other SO users too. > I'm on the fence on this one. > > On the one hand, SO is not a user forum. Keep in mind the hibernate.org > forums are for more than just issues and usage discussions. We've had > new feature discussions start there, general topics, etc. > > On the other hand, many issues/usage questions go unanswered -- they'd > certainly get more eyes and activity on SO. > > Maybe the best approach is a hybrid, where we clearly lay out the > intentions/strengths of each? > > Vlad > > _______________________________________________ > > hibernate-dev mailing list > > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > hibernate-dev mailing list > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > _______________________________________________ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

I think we have the option. Administration Control Panel -> Post Settings Enable queued posts: Yes Maximum post count for queued posts: 1 I have activated and I will test it with a new account. Vlad On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 12:01 PM, Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > On 9 December 2015 at 07:02, Vlad Mihalcea <mihalcea.vlad(a)gmail.com&gt; > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I agree that a value of 1 is sufficient too. Once a user posted a > > Hibernate-related question, there is no way he will want to spam the > forum. > > +1 > Is that possible with our current forum? > I think I proposed something similar before but didn't find such an > option. > > > I also think we should keep the forum it's a way to reach the actual dev > > team. On SO, you get answers for the community. > > That's crucial. We can't possibly find the bandwidth to help all the > users ourselves if they don't help each other too. > > > So both the forum and SO are important and we should blend them, rather > > than pick one over the other. > > > > Vlad > > > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 12:42 AM, Brett Meyer <brett(a)hibernate.org&gt; > wrote: > > > >> On 12/08/2015 02:46 AM, Vlad Mihalcea wrote: > >> > Hi, > >> > > >> > I was discussing with Steve on the HipChat page yesterday that we > should > >> > probably enable these forum options: > >> > Enable queued posts: > >> > Ability to put registered users posts to post approval if their post > >> count > >> > is lower than the specified value below. This setting has no effect > on > >> the > >> > permission setting for post/topic approval. Maximum post count for > queued > >> > posts: > >> > If queued posts is enabled, this is the post count the user need to > reach > >> > in order to post without post approval. If the users post count is > below > >> > this number, the post is stored in the queue automatically.This way > we > >> can > >> > make sure spam won't reach the forum because we have to approve all > posts > >> > and active users can get their post approved immediately. > >> +1 from me. Although, I'd suggest setting that post count extremely > >> low. Even "1" is likely sufficient, considering the spammers always > >> seem to open a new account and post a brand new topic. > >> > We might want to suggest users to use StackOverflow because it's a > very > >> > active community there are we could focus on unanswered questions > there > >> > too. Maybe we can change the hibernate.org site to display the SO > tag > >> link > >> > before our forum. This way we might redirect some posts to SO > instead of > >> > the forum. This can decrease the time to get a response, and many > easy > >> > questions would get answered by other SO users too. > >> I'm on the fence on this one. > >> > >> On the one hand, SO is not a user forum. Keep in mind the > hibernate.org > >> forums are for more than just issues and usage discussions. We've had > >> new feature discussions start there, general topics, etc. > >> > >> On the other hand, many issues/usage questions go unanswered -- they'd > >> certainly get more eyes and activity on SO. > >> > >> Maybe the best approach is a hybrid, where we clearly lay out the > >> intentions/strengths of each? > >> > Vlad > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > hibernate-dev mailing list > >> > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> hibernate-dev mailing list > >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > hibernate-dev mailing list > > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev >

Hi, > I also think we should keep the forum it's a way to reach the actual dev > team. On SO, you get answers for the community. I am confused. Is the whole forum not about community as well? I would assume that there are many questions which are discussed and solved by the community itself w/o any interaction of the dev team. Also, there is no reason why the Hibernate team should not be reachable on Stackoverflow. In fact, I am ourdays exclusively on Stackoverflow, because it imo ways superior to our (technologly) outdated forum. Also, Stackoverflow actually introduced now a new "feature" called "Teams" - http://stackoverflow.com/teams. Seems to be a good time to discuss whether we want to create a Hibernate team or maybe even project specific teams or whether we have no interest at all in this. The only problem I see with Stackoverflow is that some discussions which are occurring on the Forum are not suited for Stackoverflow. In these cases the discussion should be moved to mailing list, JIRA or IRC (depending on the circumstances). > So both the forum and SO are important and we should blend them, rather > than pick one over the other. I don't think I would sign this statement in this form ;-) --Hardy

Interesting about the SO Teams feature, I had not seen that yet. I'll have to look at it.

To complement some of the sentiment, SO is awesome to answer questions on the project. But not to get interactions with the users to get the right use case, exchange on potential bugs to later open JIRAs etc.

On 9 December 2015 at 20:49, Hardy Ferentschik <hardy(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, Dec 09, 2015 at 05:18:23PM +0100, Emmanuel Bernard wrote: >> To complement some of the sentiment, SO is awesome to answer questions on the project. >> But not to get interactions with the users to get the right use case, exchange on potential >> bugs to later open JIRAs etc. > > Sure, as I said, some of these interactions would require that they would be early on moved > to another medium. Basically I don't see a big issue here. Often one can quite early tell whether > it is worth creating a JIRA. In other cases one can refer to the IRC channels and the mailing list. This seems a nice precedent: - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/google-collections-users/m8FnCcmtC88 Found via the highly related: - http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/3966/is-it-okay-to-use-stack-over... > > --Hardy > > > _______________________________________________ > hibernate-dev mailing list > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev _______________________________________________ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

Hi, On Wed, Dec 09, 2015 at 09:58:01PM +0000, Sanne Grinovero wrote: > This seems a nice precedent: > - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/google-collections-users/m8FnCcmtC88 Right, this is pretty much what I had in mind as well. Whether one would create a dedicated mailing list like hibernate-discussions can be discussed, but otherwise I would sign under the approach taken for google-collections-users. As mentioned in the post, the best place with the biggest community for questions of the "How do I" type is Stackoverflow. So basically I would suggest: - Put the forum into a read only mode - Add a banner explaining the move to Stackoverflow (similar in content to what's in the post mentioned above) - Create a Hibernate Team on Stackoverflow - Make sure all Hibernate related tags and wiki pages are up to date - Add a "Where-to-post summary" to hibernate.org - Create a hibernate-discussions mailing list!? I think we would gain a lot of by this approach.

Hi, > > So basically I would suggest: > > > > - Put the forum into a read only mode > > - Add a banner explaining the move to Stackoverflow (similar in content to what's in the post > > mentioned above) > > - Create a Hibernate Team on Stackoverflow > > - Make sure all Hibernate related tags and wiki pages are up to date > > - Add a "Where-to-post summary" to hibernate.org > > - Create a hibernate-discussions mailing list!? > > > > I think we would gain a lot of by this approach. > > Looks like a solid plan so I captured in > https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/WEBSITE-416 Awesome thanks. > (even though clearly we need some kind of agreement from more people > on such a significant change) Sure, we need a general buy in into this approach. > It saddens me to see the forum go though. Sometimes it is just time to say goodbye :-) Keeping it alive would imo just reduce the gained benefits (no need to battle spam, no need to monitor its service and run database rescue operations, no need to use an old fashioned UI) > Shouldn't the forum be the place for such discusssions, rather than a > new mailing list? I think a mailing list is better. Would be interesting to hear what others think. --Hardy _______________________________________________ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

If anyone is unfamiliar with Nabble... Here is the Nabble-ized form of this very mailing list: http://hibernate-development.74578.x6.nabble.com/ It looks/works just like a forum. For mailing-list backed Nabble forums it is read-only in effect, unless you also subscribe to the mailing list. On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 7:41 AM Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > You know my thoughts on the forum. I think forum versus mailing list is > just very much a personal preference. Some people really like one or the > other. Why not split the middle and use mailing list + nabble? > > On Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 7:35 AM Hardy Ferentschik <hardy(a)hibernate.org&gt; > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> > > So basically I would suggest: >> > > >> > > - Put the forum into a read only mode >> > > - Add a banner explaining the move to Stackoverflow (similar in >> content to what's in the post >> > > mentioned above) >> > > - Create a Hibernate Team on Stackoverflow >> > > - Make sure all Hibernate related tags and wiki pages are up to date >> > > - Add a "Where-to-post summary" to hibernate.org >> > > - Create a hibernate-discussions mailing list!? >> > > >> > > I think we would gain a lot of by this approach. >> > >> > Looks like a solid plan so I captured in >> > https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/WEBSITE-416 >> >> Awesome thanks. >> >> > (even though clearly we need some kind of agreement from more people >> > on such a significant change) >> >> Sure, we need a general buy in into this approach. >> >> > It saddens me to see the forum go though. >> >> Sometimes it is just time to say goodbye :-) Keeping it alive would imo >> just reduce the gained benefits (no need to battle spam, no need to >> monitor >> its service and run database rescue operations, no need to use an old >> fashioned >> UI) >> >> > Shouldn't the forum be the place for such discusssions, rather than a >> > new mailing list? >> >> I think a mailing list is better. >> >> Would be interesting to hear what others think. >> >> --Hardy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> hibernate-dev mailing list >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >

On 10 December 2015 at 15:24, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > BTW, there is already a hibernate-users mailing list hosted on the JBoss > Mailman instance. Back when we moved to JBoss Mailman they used to set up a > number of lists by default. We just chose to not really use this one in > particular. We could use this one for purpose discussed here. Yes, that would be nice. I'm registered on that list, and there have been questions already although they are extremely rare - I recall something like 3 a year? - probably because I don't think its existance was ever advertised.

BTW, I looked into creating a Hibernate SO Team. Are we thinking one team? > Or one per project (ORM, OGM, etc)? Depends on how it works? I do monitor various tags, including "hibernate", "hibernate-search", "hibernate-ogm" and sometimes do a cross-check query like "hibernate" + "lucene", although others on our team often arrive first to answer. If the intent of the feature is to distribute the load among people to answer and monitor such tags, then I guess you're not interested in being notified for the Lucene related ones? From what I understand here: - http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/307513/the-power-of-teams-a-propo... It looks like it's more about showing off our affiliation, and to create a space were people can ask questions "about the team". So I'd say a single team unless I misunderstood things.

On 10 December 2015 at 17:48, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 11:43 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; > wrote: >> >> On 10 December 2015 at 15:24, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: >> > BTW, there is already a hibernate-users mailing list hosted on the JBoss >> > Mailman instance. Back when we moved to JBoss Mailman they used to set >> > up a >> > number of lists by default. We just chose to not really use this one in >> > particular. We could use this one for purpose discussed here. >> >> Yes, that would be nice. I'm registered on that list, and there have >> been questions already although they are extremely rare - I recall >> something like 3 a year? - probably because I don't think its >> existance was ever advertised. > > > Not sure. Mailman is not great at showing "list statistics". Actually it > kind of sucks as an archive (not searchable, segmented, etc). > > http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/hibernate-users/ > > >> > BTW, I looked into creating a Hibernate SO Team. Are we thinking one >> > team? >> > Or one per project (ORM, OGM, etc)? >> >> Depends on how it works? I do monitor various tags, including >> "hibernate", "hibernate-search", "hibernate-ogm" and sometimes do a >> cross-check query like "hibernate" + "lucene", although others on our >> team often arrive first to answer. >> >> If the intent of the feature is to distribute the load among people to >> answer and monitor such tags, then I guess you're not interested in >> being notified for the Lucene related ones? >> >> From what I understand here: >> - >> http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/307513/the-power-of-teams-a-propo... >> >> It looks like it's more about showing off our affiliation, and to >> create a space were people can ask questions "about the team". >> So I'd say a single team unless I misunderstood things. > > > That would be my vote as well: one team Let's start with one then! If future features warrant a more fine-grained approach for some practicality reasons, we'll consider making sub-groups as an addition, but I guess in terms of community it makes sense to build up a single strong brand. Will you set it up?

FYI... http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/312708/stackoverflow-teams-sign-up