8:27 a.m.
This is brain storming at this stage.
How much is required of a cache provider as far as semantic is
concerned and be cluster safe? The only providers we currently offer are EhCache and
Infinispan
http://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/4.3/manual/en-US/html_single/#perform...
But both happen to be transactional so I wonder if that's a requirement
and if not what are the list of atomic operations that a clustered cache
provider would need to offer.
Any hint and feedback appreciated :)
Emmanuel
1:13 p.m.
Both Ehcache and Infinispan support transactions, but Ehcache doesn't
use this capability when running as Hibernate 2nd level cache, while
Infinispan uses it more as an implementation detail to provide
internal consistency, and not to participate with the application
transaction.
So I think that the fact they both happen to also support Transactions
should be considered incidental.
I'd very interested too to hear from Galder and Alex about the
required atomic operation they build on. I could look at the code but
I'm primarily wondering of what they'd rather need conceptually, than
knowing what they are forced to do today.
Sanne
On 4 April 2014 14:27, Emmanuel Bernard <emmanuel(a)hibernate.org> wrote:
This is brain storming at this stage.
How much is required of a cache provider as far as semantic is
concerned and be cluster safe? The only providers we currently offer are EhCache and
Infinispan
http://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/4.3/manual/en-US/html_single/#perform...
But both happen to be transactional so I wonder if that's a requirement
and if not what are the list of atomic operations that a clustered cache
provider would need to offer.
Any hint and feedback appreciated :)
Emmanuel
_______________________________________________
hibernate-dev mailing list
hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
4:32 p.m.
Y, Ehcache will work clustered both in transactional (JTA), read-only and
read-write just fine (non strict will work, only blows the race wider open
and inconsistent data will be noticed "quicker").
Am trying to think hard what a cache provider "conceptually needs" to
support clustered scenarios. One could argue clustered is merely doing
stuff over the wires rather than on the mem bus.
So I guess a strongly consistent mode, with some coordination primitives (a
synchronous API of some kind could well be enough I think). Actually
implementing the READ_WRITE strategy on top of jsr107 should give some
perspectives. Today, Ehcache resorts to explicit locks in read_write, but
entry processors should fit the bill just as much (until I'm proven wrong
obviously!). Transactional caches abstract that complexity from the H2LC
provider code, but the coordination still exists (and actually does more
too, as it also provide isolation and JTA recovery in our case as well).
Is this some meaningful input ? Willing to discuss this further though...
PS: Sorry for replying only now, had the pleasure of being sick for the
last three days :/
On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 2:13 PM, Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org> wrote:
Both Ehcache and Infinispan support transactions, but Ehcache
doesn't
use this capability when running as Hibernate 2nd level cache, while
Infinispan uses it more as an implementation detail to provide
internal consistency, and not to participate with the application
transaction.
So I think that the fact they both happen to also support Transactions
should be considered incidental.
I'd very interested too to hear from Galder and Alex about the
required atomic operation they build on. I could look at the code but
I'm primarily wondering of what they'd rather need conceptually, than
knowing what they are forced to do today.
Sanne
On 4 April 2014 14:27, Emmanuel Bernard <emmanuel(a)hibernate.org> wrote:
> This is brain storming at this stage.
>
> How much is required of a cache provider as far as semantic is
> concerned and be cluster safe? The only providers we currently offer are
EhCache and
> Infinispan
>
http://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/4.3/manual/en-US/html_single/#perform...
>
> But both happen to be transactional so I wonder if that's a requirement
> and if not what are the list of atomic operations that a clustered cache
> provider would need to offer.
>
> Any hint and feedback appreciated :)
>
> Emmanuel
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
--
Alex Snaps <alex.snaps(a)gmail.com>
Principal Software Engineer - Terracotta
http://twitter.com/alexsnaps
http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexsnaps
http://withinthefra.me
8:25 a.m.
The reason Infinispan currently uses transactions and forces JTA transactions, for any
clustering mode that requires entity updates, is because the need to rollback contents if
they’re partially applied in the cluster. Without transactions, we do not have the
capabilities to rollback changes if only half of the nodes apply the update.
On 04 Apr 2014, at 20:13, Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org> wrote:
Both Ehcache and Infinispan support transactions, but Ehcache
doesn't
use this capability when running as Hibernate 2nd level cache, while
Infinispan uses it more as an implementation detail to provide
internal consistency, and not to participate with the application
transaction.
^ Not sure what transactions you area talking about there, whether Hibernate or JTA
transactions, but Infinispan does participate in the on-going JTA transaction that the
application is running, when the mode is transactional. It interacts with the transaction
manager via synchronizations.
So I think that the fact they both happen to also support Transactions
should be considered incidental.
I'd very interested too to hear from Galder and Alex about the
required atomic operation they build on. I could look at the code but
I'm primarily wondering of what they'd rather need conceptually, than
knowing what they are forced to do today.
Sanne
On 4 April 2014 14:27, Emmanuel Bernard <emmanuel(a)hibernate.org> wrote:
> This is brain storming at this stage.
>
> How much is required of a cache provider as far as semantic is
> concerned and be cluster safe? The only providers we currently offer are EhCache and
> Infinispan
> http://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/4.3/manual/en-US/html_single/#perform...
>
> But both happen to be transactional so I wonder if that's a requirement
> and if not what are the list of atomic operations that a clustered cache
> provider would need to offer.
>
> Any hint and feedback appreciated :)
>
> Emmanuel
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
--
Galder Zamarreño
galder(a)redhat.com
twitter.com/galderz
3682
days inactive
3689
days old
3 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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Alex Snaps -
Emmanuel Bernard -
Galder Zamarreño -
Sanne Grinovero