Are there real-world use cases where an initialized many-to-many collection should contain elements that are uninitialized proxies (HibernateProxy), rather than entity instances? Currently, it is possible to configure this behavior using either: <many-to-many ... fetch="select"/> <many-to-many ... outer-join="false"/> We are considering removing this capability if there are no real-world use cases. Fetch profiles do not provide this level of granularity. The fetch style for the collection itself, but not its elements, can be configured using a fetch profile. As far as I know, JPA does not provide this level of granularity either. Please let us know if you are using this functionality. Thanks, Gail _______________________________________________ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

As far as I can tell, "extra-lazy" applies to the collection itself, not its elements. lazy="extra" is defined on <map>, <set>, <bag>, <idbag>, <list>. Currently, an extra-lazy collection can be configured having <many-to-many> with fetch="select" or outer-join="false". In the case of a map, doing a lookup by key would not initialize the map (because the map is extra-lazy) and it would return an uninitialized proxy for the value (because of the fetch="select" or outer-join="false"). Do you think that would have a real-world application? Removing the fetch="select" or outer-join="false" functionality from <many-to-many> on an extra-lazy collection would not change the normal extra-lazy behavior, avoiding initialization of the collection itself. Gail ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sanne Grinovero" <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; > To: "Gail Badner" <gbadner(a)redhat.com&gt; > Cc: "hibernate-dev" <hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org&gt; > Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 4:47:58 PM > Subject: Re: [hibernate-dev] Use cases for many-to-many collection of proxies? > > Hi Gail, > does this impact as well the "extra-lazy" collections? > I definitely had great use cases for them in the past. > > On 21 October 2013 19:22, Gail Badner <gbadner(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: > > Are there real-world use cases where an initialized many-to-many collection > > should contain elements that are uninitialized proxies (HibernateProxy), > > rather than entity instances? > > > > Currently, it is possible to configure this behavior using either: > > > > <many-to-many ... fetch="select"/> > > <many-to-many ... outer-join="false"/> > > > > We are considering removing this capability if there are no real-world use > > cases. > > > > Fetch profiles do not provide this level of granularity. The fetch style > > for the collection itself, but not its elements, can be configured using a > > fetch profile. > > > > As far as I know, JPA does not provide this level of granularity either. > > > > Please let us know if you are using this functionality. > > > > Thanks, > > Gail > > _______________________________________________ > > hibernate-dev mailing list > > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > _______________________________________________ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

From: "Sanne Grinovero" <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; To: "Steve Ebersole" <steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; Cc: "Gail Badner" <gbadner(a)redhat.com&gt;, "hibernate-dev" <hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org&gt; Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 11:55:42 AM Subject: Re: [hibernate-dev] Use cases for many-to-many collection of proxies? Good to know, thanks for the clarification. In that case I don't know if the feature is important, it sounds like it could be useful in some case but maybe it's far fetched in practice. I'll defer to opinion of other users. Sanne On 23 October 2013 00:03, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > Gail is correct. extra-lazy is something else completely. > > On Oct 22, 2013 4:00 PM, "Gail Badner" <gbadner(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >> >> As far as I can tell, "extra-lazy" applies to the collection itself, not >> its elements. lazy="extra" is defined on <map>, <set>, <bag>, <idbag>, >> <list>. >> >> Currently, an extra-lazy collection can be configured having >> <many-to-many> with fetch="select" or outer-join="false". In the case of a >> map, doing a lookup by key would not initialize the map (because the map >> is >> extra-lazy) and it would return an uninitialized proxy for the value >> (because of the fetch="select" or outer-join="false"). >> >> Do you think that would have a real-world application? >> >> Removing the fetch="select" or outer-join="false" functionality from >> <many-to-many> on an extra-lazy collection would not change the normal >> extra-lazy behavior, avoiding initialization of the collection itself. >> >> Gail >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Sanne Grinovero" <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; >> > To: "Gail Badner" <gbadner(a)redhat.com&gt; >> > Cc: "hibernate-dev" <hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org&gt; >> > Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 4:47:58 PM >> > Subject: Re: [hibernate-dev] Use cases for many-to-many collection of >> > proxies? >> > >> > Hi Gail, >> > does this impact as well the "extra-lazy" collections? >> > I definitely had great use cases for them in the past. >> > >> > On 21 October 2013 19:22, Gail Badner <gbadner(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >> > > Are there real-world use cases where an initialized many-to-many >> > > collection >> > > should contain elements that are uninitialized proxies >> > > (HibernateProxy), >> > > rather than entity instances? >> > > >> > > Currently, it is possible to configure this behavior using either: >> > > >> > > <many-to-many ... fetch="select"/> >> > > <many-to-many ... outer-join="false"/> >> > > >> > > We are considering removing this capability if there are no real-world >> > > use >> > > cases. >> > > >> > > Fetch profiles do not provide this level of granularity. The fetch >> > > style >> > > for the collection itself, but not its elements, can be configured >> > > using a >> > > fetch profile. >> > > >> > > As far as I know, JPA does not provide this level of granularity >> > > either. >> > > >> > > Please let us know if you are using this functionality. >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > Gail >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > hibernate-dev mailing list >> > > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> hibernate-dev mailing list >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev