9:19 p.m.
Hello group!
I am a Clojure user and would like to look into using Drools with it.
From Clojure I can use all Java classes and call all methods. So,
instantiating a KnowledgeBase, KnowledgePackages or a KBFactory is no
problem, and calling the respective methods, to get the system started,
or insert facts into a session, dispose it and fireAllRules is also
fine.
It is just that in Clojure one typically does not use POJOs.
The most typical data structures used are: hashmaps, vectors, structs,
lists, structuremaps and sets (in no particular order).
Those are persistent and "concurrency ready" Clojure DSs, and btw, also
usable from Java directly.
Now the basic Drools examples I saw all work with POJOs.
They were mostly comparisons of native typed fields in a class.
I however would be interested to compare different qualities of key/
value pairs in a hashmap, or compare structs with each other.
Comparing structuremaps is maybe what comes closest to the POJO examples.
For example, we may have a struct (defstruct person :name :age :type)
and store it's instances in a vector. And we would also insert it into
our Drools session object:
(doseq [p all-persons] (.insert session p))
which would correspond roughly to
for (Person p : allPersons) { session.insert(p); }
Only that "person" is a map, not a class.
Well, of course it is also an object and under the hood a class, a
java.util.Map even - but I mean that unlike POJOs the key/value pairs
are stored differently (fields in classes are also just key/value pairs).
So, is there a way to insert maps (let it be java.util.HashMaps for
example) and also to reason about them? I won't care if the syntax
for that is complicated. As Clojure is a Lisp I would just write a
little macro and have a very nice and readable syntax (probably a bit
similar to the one of Jess or Lisa).
Instead of looking at all instances of the type Person AND then have
their age compared, I would look at all maps/structs which have a key
:type with the value :person AND then compare the value of their :age
key with a number, such as:
(rule "example person rule, matching non-adults"
:when (= :type :person)
(< :age 18)
:then
(println "No service for minors."))
In Java terms it would mean that we insert several instances of
java.util.HashMap, all having the k/v pairs for name, age and type.
HashMap<String, Object> hm = new HashMap<String, Object>();
hm.put("name", someName);
hm.put("age", someAge);
hm.put("type", "person");
session.insert(hm);
Is that in principle possible with Drools 5?
Sunny greetings,
André
--
Lisp is not dead. It’s just the URL that has changed:
http://clojure.org/
12:01 a.m.
New subject: Drools and Clojure
My previous mail did not really have any resonance, which is probably
due to the fact that I put the word "Clojure" into the subject. Some of
you may not know that Clojure is a programming language which compiles
to Java byte code and which can use all Java classes and which can
itself also produce classes which are then usable in Java.
I hope this time some people will answer :-)
I would like to see some comments about the eval+Maps issue and a tip
how I can have rules which are not constraints at the same time about
what can be inserted into a session.
Currently I am writing a lib which will make Drools usable from within
the Clojure programming language. That is good for both, Drools and
Clojure. That way Drools gets more users and more Clojure users can use
that powerful system.
At the end of this mail you will find my original one that I sent some
days ago which got no answer. By now I found out the answer myself.
My question was if I can write rules which will fire when some specific
key/value pairs are set in a HashMap. And yes, I was able to do this via
eval.
Is there really no other way than using eval?
The disadvantage seems to be that Drools can not do optimizations over
evals, but needs to execute that code each time.
In Clojure it is typical to use Maps instead of POJOs. That would mean
that Clojure users either have to do non-idiomatic programming, or
accept that their rules will be slower.
Although in principle maps and class instances are equivalent. POJOs are
also maps. They map a key, the field of the class, to a value. POJOs
have one implicit field, which is their type.
We could have a
class Person {
String name;
int age;
...
}
or a Map with just three fields: name, age and type.
In the type slot we could store the string "Person".
Clojure Maps are immutable which should allow even more optimizations
than we can have in Drools from POJOs.
Anyway, here is a rule that I currently use:
package droolsandclojure;
import clojure.lang.APersistentMap;
rule "Clojure test 1"
when
m:APersistentMap()
eval((Integer)m.get("c") == 206)
then
System.out.println("Match: " + m);
end
and in my Clojure program I create a stateful session object and then
(.insert session {"a" 1, "b" 2, "c" 3})
(.insert session {"a" 1, "b" 2, "c" 206})
which inserts two maps into the session object.
When I then (.fireAllRules session) then it prints out
Match: {"a" 1, "b" 2, "c" 206}
as expected.
One thing is strange though: I can not insert Maps which don't have a
key "c" - I get a NullPointerException.
It seems that I set a constraint of which things can go into a session
instead of having a rule which fires only for those Maps that come with
the right key/value pairs. Btw, this also happens when I use a
java.util.HashMap instead of the Clojure one.
The rule then looks like:
package droolsandclojure;
import java.util.Map;
rule "Clojure test 2"
when
m:Map()
eval((Integer)m.get("c") == 206)
then
System.out.println("Match: " + m);
end
And I do
(let [map (new java.util.HashMap)]
(.put map "a" 10)
(.put map "b" 20)
(.put map "c" 206)
...
(.insert session map)
...)
which then prints:
Match: {b=20, c=206, a=10}
But if I don't (.put map "c" 206) but instead (.put map "d" 206)
then I
get the NPE.
Here my earlier original mail which you can safely ignore.
Greetings,
André
André Thieme schrieb:
Hello group!
I am a Clojure user and would like to look into using Drools with it.
From Clojure I can use all Java classes and call all methods. So,
instantiating a KnowledgeBase, KnowledgePackages or a KBFactory is no
problem, and calling the respective methods, to get the system started,
or insert facts into a session, dispose it and fireAllRules is also
fine.
It is just that in Clojure one typically does not use POJOs.
The most typical data structures used are: hashmaps, vectors, structs,
lists, structuremaps and sets (in no particular order).
Those are persistent and "concurrency ready" Clojure DSs, and btw, also
usable from Java directly.
Now the basic Drools examples I saw all work with POJOs.
They were mostly comparisons of native typed fields in a class.
I however would be interested to compare different qualities of key/
value pairs in a hashmap, or compare structs with each other.
Comparing structuremaps is maybe what comes closest to the POJO examples.
For example, we may have a struct (defstruct person :name :age :type)
and store it's instances in a vector. And we would also insert it into
our Drools session object:
(doseq [p all-persons] (.insert session p))
which would correspond roughly to
for (Person p : allPersons) { session.insert(p); }
Only that "person" is a map, not a class.
Well, of course it is also an object and under the hood a class, a
java.util.Map even - but I mean that unlike POJOs the key/value pairs
are stored differently (fields in classes are also just key/value pairs).
So, is there a way to insert maps (let it be java.util.HashMaps for
example) and also to reason about them? I won't care if the syntax
for that is complicated. As Clojure is a Lisp I would just write a
little macro and have a very nice and readable syntax (probably a bit
similar to the one of Jess or Lisa).
Instead of looking at all instances of the type Person AND then have
their age compared, I would look at all maps/structs which have a key
:type with the value :person AND then compare the value of their :age
key with a number, such as:
(rule "example person rule, matching non-adults"
:when (= :type :person)
(< :age 18)
:then
(println "No service for minors."))
In Java terms it would mean that we insert several instances of
java.util.HashMap, all having the k/v pairs for name, age and type.
HashMap<String, Object> hm = new HashMap<String, Object>();
hm.put("name", someName);
hm.put("age", someAge);
hm.put("type", "person");
session.insert(hm);
Is that in principle possible with Drools 5?
Sunny greetings,
André
--
Lisp is not dead. It’s just the URL that has changed:
http://clojure.org/
3:24 a.m.
New subject: Drools and Clojure
There's no reason why a rete based system couldn't use maps as first class
objects, but Drools is heavily oriented towards POJOS. Using eval in the way you have is
pretty much the way to go.
That being said, a possible direction for Drools might be the way the object-relational
mapper Hibernate handles things: tuplizers. When you create a Hibernate session you can
specify how you want it to instantiate the data mapped in the database. There are three
built in tuplizers: Dom4jEntityTuplizer, DynamicMapEntityTuplizer, and PojoEntityTuplizer.
(And you can create custom ones.)
As long as type information is accessible (both for first class types and their members)
you should be able to have the left hand side of a rule (the conditions) be as it is now.
The right hand side is another story entirely, as Drools does no processing on it
whatsoever. Creating new working memory objects could not be generic, and neither would
modification of existing objects. If you did want to make it generic, you would lose the
full power of java by handing working memory object creation and modification over to
Drools. In my experience when systems try to take on that responsibility they don't
do it as well, or as flexibly, as java does.
If you lobby the devs hard enough and get others on your side you may be able to convince
them to go in that direction, but I doubt it would be possible before version 6 or so, if
that early. (And I'm not even sure it's possible.)
--- On Tue, 8/11/09, André Thieme <address.good.until.2009.dec.14(a)justmail.de>
wrote:
From: André Thieme
<address.good.until.2009.dec.14(a)justmail.de>
Subject: [rules-users] Drools and Clojure
To: "Rules Users List" <rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org>
Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 5:01 PM
My previous mail did not really have
any resonance, which is probably
due to the fact that I put the word "Clojure" into the
subject. Some of
you may not know that Clojure is a programming language
which compiles
to Java byte code and which can use all Java classes and
which can
itself also produce classes which are then usable in Java.
I hope this time some people will answer :-)
I would like to see some comments about the eval+Maps issue
and a tip
how I can have rules which are not constraints at the same
time about
what can be inserted into a session.
Currently I am writing a lib which will make Drools usable
from within
the Clojure programming language. That is good for both,
Drools and
Clojure. That way Drools gets more users and more Clojure
users can use
that powerful system.
At the end of this mail you will find my original one that
I sent some
days ago which got no answer. By now I found out the answer
myself.
My question was if I can write rules which will fire when
some specific
key/value pairs are set in a HashMap. And yes, I was able
to do this via
eval.
Is there really no other way than using eval?
The disadvantage seems to be that Drools can not do
optimizations over
evals, but needs to execute that code each time.
In Clojure it is typical to use Maps instead of POJOs. That
would mean
that Clojure users either have to do non-idiomatic
programming, or
accept that their rules will be slower.
Although in principle maps and class instances are
equivalent. POJOs are
also maps. They map a key, the field of the class, to a
value. POJOs
have one implicit field, which is their type.
We could have a
class Person {
String name;
int age;
...
}
or a Map with just three fields: name, age and type.
In the type slot we could store the string "Person".
Clojure Maps are immutable which should allow even more
optimizations
than we can have in Drools from POJOs.
Anyway, here is a rule that I currently use:
package droolsandclojure;
import clojure.lang.APersistentMap;
rule "Clojure test 1"
when
m:APersistentMap()
eval((Integer)m.get("c") == 206)
then
System.out.println("Match: " + m);
end
and in my Clojure program I create a stateful session
object and then
(.insert session {"a" 1, "b" 2, "c" 3})
(.insert session {"a" 1, "b" 2, "c" 206})
which inserts two maps into the session object.
When I then (.fireAllRules session) then it prints out
Match: {"a" 1, "b" 2, "c" 206}
as expected.
One thing is strange though: I can not insert Maps which
don't have a
key "c" - I get a NullPointerException.
It seems that I set a constraint of which things can go
into a session
instead of having a rule which fires only for those Maps
that come with
the right key/value pairs. Btw, this also happens when I
use a
java.util.HashMap instead of the Clojure one.
The rule then looks like:
package droolsandclojure;
import java.util.Map;
rule "Clojure test 2"
when
m:Map()
eval((Integer)m.get("c") == 206)
then
System.out.println("Match: " + m);
end
And I do
(let [map (new java.util.HashMap)]
(.put map "a" 10)
(.put map "b" 20)
(.put map "c" 206)
...
(.insert session map)
...)
which then prints:
Match: {b=20, c=206, a=10}
But if I don't (.put map "c" 206) but instead (.put map "d"
206) then I
get the NPE.
Here my earlier original mail which you can safely ignore.
Greetings,
André
André Thieme schrieb:
> Hello group!
>
> I am a Clojure user and would like to look into using
Drools with it.
> From Clojure I can use all Java classes and call
all methods. So,
> instantiating a KnowledgeBase, KnowledgePackages or a
KBFactory is no
> problem, and calling the respective methods, to get
the system started,
> or insert facts into a session, dispose it and
fireAllRules is also
> fine.
>
> It is just that in Clojure one typically does not use
POJOs.
> The most typical data structures used are: hashmaps,
vectors, structs,
> lists, structuremaps and sets (in no particular
order).
> Those are persistent and "concurrency ready" Clojure
DSs, and btw, also
> usable from Java directly.
>
> Now the basic Drools examples I saw all work with
POJOs.
> They were mostly comparisons of native typed fields in
a class.
> I however would be interested to compare different
qualities of key/
> value pairs in a hashmap, or compare structs with each
other.
> Comparing structuremaps is maybe what comes closest to
the POJO examples.
> For example, we may have a struct (defstruct person
:name :age :type)
> and store it's instances in a vector. And we would
also insert it into
> our Drools session object:
> (doseq [p all-persons] (.insert session p))
> which would correspond roughly to
> for (Person p : allPersons) { session.insert(p); }
> Only that "person" is a map, not a class.
> Well, of course it is also an object and under the
hood a class, a
> java.util.Map even - but I mean that unlike POJOs the
key/value pairs
> are stored differently (fields in classes are also
just key/value pairs).
>
> So, is there a way to insert maps (let it be
java.util.HashMaps for
> example) and also to reason about them? I won't care
if the syntax
> for that is complicated. As Clojure is a Lisp I would
just write a
> little macro and have a very nice and readable syntax
(probably a bit
> similar to the one of Jess or Lisa).
> Instead of looking at all instances of the type Person
AND then have
> their age compared, I would look at all maps/structs
which have a key
> :type with the value :person AND then compare the
value of their :age
> key with a number, such as:
> (rule "example person rule, matching non-adults"
> :when (= :type :person)
> (< :age 18)
> :then
> (println "No service for
minors."))
>
> In Java terms it would mean that we insert several
instances of
> java.util.HashMap, all having the k/v pairs for name,
age and type.
> HashMap<String, Object> hm = new
HashMap<String, Object>();
> hm.put("name", someName);
> hm.put("age", someAge);
> hm.put("type", "person");
> session.insert(hm);
>
> Is that in principle possible with Drools 5?
>
>
> Sunny greetings,
> André
--
Lisp is not dead. It’s just the URL that has changed:
http://clojure.org/
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
12:25 a.m.
New subject: Drools and Clojure
Greg Barton schrieb:
There's no reason why a rete based system couldn't use maps
as first
class objects, but Drools is heavily oriented towards POJOS. Using
eval in the way you have is pretty much the way to go.
Thanks for confirming that.
For now I know that I am doing it right by using eval and that this
means that rules for typical Clojure objects will not benefit from some
of the optimizations Drools usually can apply.
Maybe it will change in the future.
As long as type information is accessible (both for first class
types
and their members) you should be able to have the left hand side of a
rule (the conditions) be as it is now.
I think that if Maps become 1st class objects there could be a different
Syntax, without using eval.
If you lobby the devs hard enough and get others on your side you
may
be able to convince them to go in that direction, but I doubt it
would be possible before version 6 or so, if that early. (And I'm
not even sure it's possible.)
At this point it is mostly interesting for me to get Drools working with
Clojure together and concentrate on correctness. The goal is that users
of my lib can use do all typical things people do with Drools without
writing Java code. Everything, including the rules, would be written in
Clojure.
But of course it would be very interesting if the devs could indeed have
Clojure in mind. I don't know how reusable the existing code is, for
using Maps without the need for eval and with having the respective
performance advantages.
I understand that the looup of the value for a given key can not be
optimized away. On my hardware get() is limited to "only" 1000 calls
per msec and core. Reading a field from a POJO is faster.
If I understand it correctly then the "problem" with eval is that it
needs to be executed each time, and no clever caching can be done.
So, eliminating that by having Maps being 1st class is what sounds
interesting.
When I refer to Maps and Clojure, then I talk about Maps having only
very few key/value pairs, just like POJOs, and being immutable.
This immutability may even be very helpful for optimization. It is
guaranteed that a given object will never change.
I hope the devs will find it okay if I make some concrete suggestions
in the coming weeks.
Sunny greetings,
André
--
Lisp is not dead. It’s just the URL that has changed:
http://clojure.org/
6:09 a.m.
New subject: Drools and Clojure
Map( this['c'] == 206 )
That should work, we do support MVEL syntax for maps and arrays - we
just don't suppor method calls, yet.
Mark
André Thieme wrote:
My previous mail did not really have any resonance, which is
probably
due to the fact that I put the word "Clojure" into the subject. Some of
you may not know that Clojure is a programming language which compiles
to Java byte code and which can use all Java classes and which can
itself also produce classes which are then usable in Java.
I hope this time some people will answer :-)
I would like to see some comments about the eval+Maps issue and a tip
how I can have rules which are not constraints at the same time about
what can be inserted into a session.
Currently I am writing a lib which will make Drools usable from within
the Clojure programming language. That is good for both, Drools and
Clojure. That way Drools gets more users and more Clojure users can use
that powerful system.
At the end of this mail you will find my original one that I sent some
days ago which got no answer. By now I found out the answer myself.
My question was if I can write rules which will fire when some specific
key/value pairs are set in a HashMap. And yes, I was able to do this via
eval.
Is there really no other way than using eval?
The disadvantage seems to be that Drools can not do optimizations over
evals, but needs to execute that code each time.
In Clojure it is typical to use Maps instead of POJOs. That would mean
that Clojure users either have to do non-idiomatic programming, or
accept that their rules will be slower.
Although in principle maps and class instances are equivalent. POJOs are
also maps. They map a key, the field of the class, to a value. POJOs
have one implicit field, which is their type.
We could have a
class Person {
String name;
int age;
...
}
or a Map with just three fields: name, age and type.
In the type slot we could store the string "Person".
Clojure Maps are immutable which should allow even more optimizations
than we can have in Drools from POJOs.
Anyway, here is a rule that I currently use:
package droolsandclojure;
import clojure.lang.APersistentMap;
rule "Clojure test 1"
when
m:APersistentMap()
eval((Integer)m.get("c") == 206)
then
System.out.println("Match: " + m);
end
and in my Clojure program I create a stateful session object and then
(.insert session {"a" 1, "b" 2, "c" 3})
(.insert session {"a" 1, "b" 2, "c" 206})
which inserts two maps into the session object.
When I then (.fireAllRules session) then it prints out
Match: {"a" 1, "b" 2, "c" 206}
as expected.
One thing is strange though: I can not insert Maps which don't have a
key "c" - I get a NullPointerException.
It seems that I set a constraint of which things can go into a session
instead of having a rule which fires only for those Maps that come with
the right key/value pairs. Btw, this also happens when I use a
java.util.HashMap instead of the Clojure one.
The rule then looks like:
package droolsandclojure;
import java.util.Map;
rule "Clojure test 2"
when
m:Map()
eval((Integer)m.get("c") == 206)
then
System.out.println("Match: " + m);
end
And I do
(let [map (new java.util.HashMap)]
(.put map "a" 10)
(.put map "b" 20)
(.put map "c" 206)
...
(.insert session map)
...)
which then prints:
Match: {b=20, c=206, a=10}
But if I don't (.put map "c" 206) but instead (.put map "d" 206)
then I
get the NPE.
Here my earlier original mail which you can safely ignore.
Greetings,
André
André Thieme schrieb:
> Hello group!
>
> I am a Clojure user and would like to look into using Drools with it.
> From Clojure I can use all Java classes and call all methods. So,
> instantiating a KnowledgeBase, KnowledgePackages or a KBFactory is no
> problem, and calling the respective methods, to get the system started,
> or insert facts into a session, dispose it and fireAllRules is also
> fine.
>
> It is just that in Clojure one typically does not use POJOs.
> The most typical data structures used are: hashmaps, vectors, structs,
> lists, structuremaps and sets (in no particular order).
> Those are persistent and "concurrency ready" Clojure DSs, and btw, also
> usable from Java directly.
>
> Now the basic Drools examples I saw all work with POJOs.
> They were mostly comparisons of native typed fields in a class.
> I however would be interested to compare different qualities of key/
> value pairs in a hashmap, or compare structs with each other.
> Comparing structuremaps is maybe what comes closest to the POJO examples.
> For example, we may have a struct (defstruct person :name :age :type)
> and store it's instances in a vector. And we would also insert it into
> our Drools session object:
> (doseq [p all-persons] (.insert session p))
> which would correspond roughly to
> for (Person p : allPersons) { session.insert(p); }
> Only that "person" is a map, not a class.
> Well, of course it is also an object and under the hood a class, a
> java.util.Map even - but I mean that unlike POJOs the key/value pairs
> are stored differently (fields in classes are also just key/value pairs).
>
> So, is there a way to insert maps (let it be java.util.HashMaps for
> example) and also to reason about them? I won't care if the syntax
> for that is complicated. As Clojure is a Lisp I would just write a
> little macro and have a very nice and readable syntax (probably a bit
> similar to the one of Jess or Lisa).
> Instead of looking at all instances of the type Person AND then have
> their age compared, I would look at all maps/structs which have a key
> :type with the value :person AND then compare the value of their :age
> key with a number, such as:
> (rule "example person rule, matching non-adults"
> :when (= :type :person)
> (< :age 18)
> :then
> (println "No service for minors."))
>
> In Java terms it would mean that we insert several instances of
> java.util.HashMap, all having the k/v pairs for name, age and type.
> HashMap<String, Object> hm = new HashMap<String, Object>();
> hm.put("name", someName);
> hm.put("age", someAge);
> hm.put("type", "person");
> session.insert(hm);
>
> Is that in principle possible with Drools 5?
>
>
> Sunny greetings,
> André
>
7:03 a.m.
New subject: Drools and Clojure
Golly, that's just too easy. :P
--- On Tue, 8/11/09, Mark Proctor <mproctor(a)codehaus.org> wrote:
From: Mark Proctor <mproctor(a)codehaus.org>
Subject: Re: [rules-users] Drools and Clojure
To: "Rules Users List" <rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org>
Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 11:09 PM
Map( this['c'] == 206 )
That should work, we do support MVEL syntax for maps and
arrays - we
just don't suppor method calls, yet.
1:20 a.m.
New subject: Drools and Clojure
Mark Proctor schrieb:
Map( this['c'] == 206 )
That should work, we do support MVEL syntax for maps and arrays - we
just don't suppor method calls, yet.
Hello Mark. I just tested it and it indeed works for me.
Although as I understand it, this will be compiled into an expression
using eval (or it will even be only interpreted).
So, if that is true it can't bring any performance advantage.
The syntax is nothing I worry about. In Clojure, which is a Lisp, I have
macros and can remove any obstacles in the syntax I like. It is trivial
to develop new domain specific languages for rules. So, my rule syntax
for Clojure will look very lispy, and each user is free to change and
extend it. I will also allow the RHS to be written in Clojure code, no
Java needed.
But back to your example: I noticed something very interesting:
when I use the MVEL dialect for the Map lookup, then I get no NPE
anymore when I check in a Map which does *not* have the key I test
for.
So, now I have two versions of my rule:
package droolsandclojure;
import java.util.Map;
rule "Clojure test 1"
when
m:Map()
eval((Integer)m.get("c") == 206)
then
System.out.println("Match: " + m);
end
and
package droolsandclojure;
import java.util.Map;
rule "Clojure MVEL test 2"
dialect "mvel"
when
m:Map( this["c"] == 206 )
then
System.out.println("Match: " + m);
end
Only one of these two rules is used, not both at the same time.
When I use rule 1 then I can not insert Maps into my session which do
not have a key "c". If I try it and run my code I get a NPE.
When I use rule 2, the MVEL version, this is different. Now I can
insert any Maps and will not get an exception. The rule will simply
just not execute the RHS.
How can rule 1 be changed so that it will not put a constraint on the
objects which are allowed to go into the session without throwing a NPE?
And another interesting thing I noticed:
to both rules I added the line
global String s;
and in the LHS's of both rules I removed the "c" and put s at its place.
Then the first thing I did after creating a session was to
(.setGlobal session "s" "c")
The rule 1 accepted this change. I can use s instead of "c". But there
is still the limitation that I can only insert Maps into the session
which do have the String "c" as key. Otherwise: NPE.
The rule 2 (mvel) however does not accept s as a placeholder. I get:
Exception executing predicate this[s] == 206
[Thrown class org.drools.RuntimeDroolsException]
Any ideas how to get rid of the NPE?
--
Lisp is not dead. It’s just the URL that has changed:
http://clojure.org/
3:22 a.m.
New subject: Drools and Clojure
André Thieme wrote:
Mark Proctor schrieb:
> Map( this['c'] == 206 )
>
> That should work, we do support MVEL syntax for maps and arrays - we
> just don't suppor method calls, yet.
>
Hello Mark. I just tested it and it indeed works for me.
Although as I understand it, this will be compiled into an expression
using eval (or it will even be only interpreted).
So, if that is true it can't bring any performance advantage.
yes, no performance benefit. As this form of use is a "return value"
really, it should be possible to index (if we assume that nest objects
do not change). Although it's a fair bit of work to do this, but
interesting work - if anyone wants to help out :)
The syntax is nothing I worry about. In Clojure, which is a Lisp, I
have
macros and can remove any obstacles in the syntax I like. It is trivial
to develop new domain specific languages for rules. So, my rule syntax
for Clojure will look very lispy, and each user is free to change and
extend it. I will also allow the RHS to be written in Clojure code, no
Java needed.
Btw if you are doing "lispy" stuff:
http://blog.athico.com/2008/02/drools-clips.html
http://blog.athico.com/2008/06/drools-clips-progress.html
But back to your example: I noticed something very interesting:
when I use the MVEL dialect for the Map lookup, then I get no NPE
anymore when I check in a Map which does *not* have the key I test
for.
So, now I have two versions of my rule:
package droolsandclojure;
import java.util.Map;
rule "Clojure test 1"
when
m:Map()
eval((Integer)m.get("c") == 206)
then
System.out.println("Match: " + m);
end
and
package droolsandclojure;
import java.util.Map;
rule "Clojure MVEL test 2"
dialect "mvel"
when
m:Map( this["c"] == 206 )
then
System.out.println("Match: " + m);
end
Only one of these two rules is used, not both at the same time.
When I use rule 1 then I can not insert Maps into my session which do
not have a key "c". If I try it and run my code I get a NPE.
When I use rule 2, the MVEL version, this is different. Now I can
insert any Maps and will not get an exception. The rule will simply
just not execute the RHS.
How can rule 1 be changed so that it will not put a constraint on the
objects which are allowed to go into the session without throwing a NPE?
see "Null-Safe Bean Navigation"
http://mvel.codehaus.org/MVEL+2.0+Property+Navigation
And another interesting thing I noticed:
to both rules I added the line
global String s;
and in the LHS's of both rules I removed the "c" and put s at its place.
Then the first thing I did after creating a session was to
(.setGlobal session "s" "c")
The rule 1 accepted this change. I can use s instead of "c". But there
is still the limitation that I can only insert Maps into the session
which do have the String "c" as key. Otherwise: NPE.
The rule 2 (mvel) however does not accept s as a placeholder. I get:
Exception executing predicate this[s] == 206
[Thrown class org.drools.RuntimeDroolsException]
Any ideas how to get rid of the NPE?
We'll have to look into this, probably a bug.
Mark
10:49 p.m.
New subject: Drools and Clojure
Mark Proctor schrieb:
André Thieme wrote:
> Mark Proctor schrieb:
>
>> Map( this['c'] == 206 )
>>
>> That should work, we do support MVEL syntax for maps and arrays - we
>> just don't suppor method calls, yet.
>>
> Hello Mark. I just tested it and it indeed works for me.
> Although as I understand it, this will be compiled into an expression
> using eval (or it will even be only interpreted).
> So, if that is true it can't bring any performance advantage.
>
yes, no performance benefit. As this form of use is a "return value"
really, it should be possible to index (if we assume that nest objects
do not change). Although it's a fair bit of work to do this, but
interesting work - if anyone wants to help out :)
It would be fantastic if there was the same optimization support for
Maps available as it exists for POJOs. Edson gave a great explanation
on how things slow down for cross products.
I thought about one thing:
Could there could maybe be a new attribute, "immutable true" or
something like that, which would signal that the rule writer promises
the engine that only immutable objects are used?
That way my lib could implicitly always set that attribute.
> The syntax is nothing I worry about. In Clojure, which is a Lisp,
I have
> macros and can remove any obstacles in the syntax I like. It is trivial
> to develop new domain specific languages for rules. So, my rule syntax
> for Clojure will look very lispy, and each user is free to change and
> extend it. I will also allow the RHS to be written in Clojure code, no
> Java needed.
>
Btw if you are doing "lispy" stuff:
http://blog.athico.com/2008/02/drools-clips.html
http://blog.athico.com/2008/06/drools-clips-progress.html
Ah yes, very interesting.
In principle it is very similar what I do.
With Clojure there is a full featured Lisp on the JVM.
What I do is adding some functions and macros, easy to use, which will
do all the Drools managing and hide it from the user.
It will be simple to add all kinds of syntaxes as soon I am done.
You can have the Jess syntax. Just write a macro and expand it into
mine. It will result in compiled rules code.
So, in some days (when I have time) the project above will be
finished ;-)
see "Null-Safe Bean Navigation"
http://mvel.codehaus.org/MVEL+2.0+Property+Navigation
Ah of course, I forgot the null. And MVEL already has the check built
in.
I think I will also implicitly add it.
> And another interesting thing I noticed:
> to both rules I added the line
> global String s;
> and in the LHS's of both rules I removed the "c" and put s at its
place.
> Then the first thing I did after creating a session was to
> (.setGlobal session "s" "c")
>
> The rule 1 accepted this change. I can use s instead of "c". But there
> is still the limitation that I can only insert Maps into the session
> which do have the String "c" as key. Otherwise: NPE.
> The rule 2 (mvel) however does not accept s as a placeholder. I get:
> Exception executing predicate this[s] == 206
> [Thrown class org.drools.RuntimeDroolsException]
>
> Any ideas how to get rid of the NPE?
>
We'll have to look into this, probably a bug.
Edson confirmed that this is an MVEL problem.
In a different thread KDR may have discovered another one.
André
--
Lisp is not dead. It’s just the URL that has changed:
http://clojure.org/
10:58 p.m.
New subject: Drools and Clojure
André Thieme wrote:
Mark Proctor schrieb:
> André Thieme wrote:
>
>> Mark Proctor schrieb:
>>
>>
>>> Map( this['c'] == 206 )
>>>
>>> That should work, we do support MVEL syntax for maps and arrays - we
>>> just don't suppor method calls, yet.
>>>
>>>
>> Hello Mark. I just tested it and it indeed works for me.
>> Although as I understand it, this will be compiled into an expression
>> using eval (or it will even be only interpreted).
>> So, if that is true it can't bring any performance advantage.
>>
>>
> yes, no performance benefit. As this form of use is a "return value"
> really, it should be possible to index (if we assume that nest objects
> do not change). Although it's a fair bit of work to do this, but
> interesting work - if anyone wants to help out :)
>
It would be fantastic if there was the same optimization support for
Maps available as it exists for POJOs. Edson gave a great explanation
on how things slow down for cross products.
I thought about one thing:
Could there could maybe be a new attribute, "immutable true" or
something like that, which would signal that the rule writer promises
the engine that only immutable objects are used?
That way my lib could implicitly always set that attribute.
It could certainly be done, lots of ways to cook this - from annotation
on the pojo, type declarations and possibly some annotation on the rule
or pattern itself. If you want to take a crack at this, you know where
to find us :)
http://www.jboss.org/drools/irc.html
Mark
>> The syntax is nothing I worry about. In Clojure, which is a Lisp, I have
>> macros and can remove any obstacles in the syntax I like. It is trivial
>> to develop new domain specific languages for rules. So, my rule syntax
>> for Clojure will look very lispy, and each user is free to change and
>> extend it. I will also allow the RHS to be written in Clojure code, no
>> Java needed.
>>
>>
> Btw if you are doing "lispy" stuff:
> http://blog.athico.com/2008/02/drools-clips.html
> http://blog.athico.com/2008/06/drools-clips-progress.html
>
Ah yes, very interesting.
In principle it is very similar what I do.
With Clojure there is a full featured Lisp on the JVM.
What I do is adding some functions and macros, easy to use, which will
do all the Drools managing and hide it from the user.
It will be simple to add all kinds of syntaxes as soon I am done.
You can have the Jess syntax. Just write a macro and expand it into
mine. It will result in compiled rules code.
So, in some days (when I have time) the project above will be
finished ;-)
> see "Null-Safe Bean Navigation"
> http://mvel.codehaus.org/MVEL+2.0+Property+Navigation
>
Ah of course, I forgot the null. And MVEL already has the check built
in.
I think I will also implicitly add it.
>> And another interesting thing I noticed:
>> to both rules I added the line
>> global String s;
>> and in the LHS's of both rules I removed the "c" and put s at its
place.
>> Then the first thing I did after creating a session was to
>> (.setGlobal session "s" "c")
>>
>> The rule 1 accepted this change. I can use s instead of "c". But there
>> is still the limitation that I can only insert Maps into the session
>> which do have the String "c" as key. Otherwise: NPE.
>> The rule 2 (mvel) however does not accept s as a placeholder. I get:
>> Exception executing predicate this[s] == 206
>> [Thrown class org.drools.RuntimeDroolsException]
>>
>> Any ideas how to get rid of the NPE?
>>
>>
> We'll have to look into this, probably a bug.
>
Edson confirmed that this is an MVEL problem.
In a different thread KDR may have discovered another one.
André
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participants (3)
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André Thieme -
Greg Barton -
Mark Proctor