On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 12:55, Gunnar Morling <gunnar(a)hibernate.org> wrote:
Does anyone know whether/how I could export all my existing chat logs
from HipChat? I'd like to keep a copy esp. of all 1:1 chats I had, if
that's possible.
Copy & Paste ? Such a powerful tool :)
If you're really lazy you could file a GDPR demand for your data..
Thanks for any hints,
--Gunnar
Am Do., 6. Dez. 2018 um 17:03 Uhr schrieb Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org>:
>
> > Hey wait a second :) You invited us to try Gitter. That's fine but we
> > never decided we're migrating to Gitter.
>
> Sure. What I meant was that we are *de facto* done migrating to gitter. Not
> that we meant it, but almost everyone is there already and almost no one is
> on HipChat.
>
> I wouldn't expect important matters to be discussed on Gitter, but then
> again I seem to remember someone (who was that? ;) ) telling me to use the
> mailing list, and not HipChat, for important matters. So, you should be
> fine.
>
> That being said, even if the decision to migrate was not made, we will have
> to make it at some point. So if you want something else, I'd be happy to
> hear about that :)
>
> Yoann Rodière
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yoann(a)hibernate.org
>
>
> On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 16:16, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> > I am never on HipChat at this point. So don't expect any important
> > matters to be discussed there ;)
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 9:08 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 10:25, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org>
wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > You also need to use ctrl+enter to send a message, the default
enter
> >> is a
> >> > new line in your message
> >> >
> >> > There's a checkbox to change that, and its value is persisted, so
you
> >> only
> >> > have to tick it once. It's located just beside the
"Send" button, I'm
> >> sure
> >> > you saw it :)
> >> > But apart from that, yes, I agree it's not very user-friendly.
It's more
> >> > about the user getting used to the tool than the tool being made
obvious
> >> > from the start.
> >> >
> >> > I'm also unsure how long Gitter will continue to be maintained,
and how
> >> > well it will be. But we're mostly done migrating to Gitter; I
don't see
> >> > much activity on HipChat anymore.
> >>
> >> Hey wait a second :) You invited us to try Gitter. That's fine but we
> >> never decided we're migrating to Gitter.
> >>
> >> I'm certainly not on Gitter regularly nor right now, so I'm
expecting
> >> any important matter to be discussed on mailing lists or HipChat.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Objectively, and regardless of my preferred tool, the main drawback I
> >> can
> >> > see about not moving to Zulip (or another tool) now, but only later,
is
> >> the
> >> > confusion it will potentially create for users: we were on HipChat,
> >> > announced we were moving to Gitter and changed the links on our
website,
> >> > and a few months later we move again. That is, I think, something we
> >> want
> >> > to avoid.
> >> >
> >> > So the question really is: is Gitter the right tool for us, and do we
> >> trust
> >> > it to stay the right tool for us long enough (say, at least a couple
of
> >> > years)?
> >> >
> >> > Yoann Rodière
> >> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> >> > yoann(a)hibernate.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 10:41, Guillaume Smet
<guillaume.smet(a)gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > So, I'm using Zulip right now on a daily basis.
> >> > >
> >> > > I maintain my first impression that it's really not user
friendly.
> >> > >
> >> > > The fact that you are required to create topics for discussions
(or
> >> find a
> >> > > suitable topic in a list of a gazillion topics previously
created,
> >> > > obviously without a search engine where you need it - you have a
> >> global one
> >> > > at the top where you can find topics) is a pain. You also need to
use
> >> > > ctrl+enter to send a message, the default enter is a new line in
your
> >> > > message. The UI is not very good and I don't see any
improvement
> >> since the
> >> > > last time I tested it so I'm wondering if they are investing
in it.
> >> > >
> >> > > We could decide to use it as a dev team as I suppose we would
get
> >> used to
> >> > > it, but I seriously don't think it's a good alternative
for our users
> >> to
> >> > > occasionally come chat with us.
> >> > >
> >> > > As for Gitter, I agree with the notification issue, the web
client is
> >> all
> >> > > buggy. Haven't tested the desktop client yet.
> >> > >
> >> > > I must admit that I prefer using Gitter. Probably until I get
bitten
> >> by
> >> > > the 1-1 history issue :).
> >> > >
> >> > > From what I can see, GitLab doesn't invest much in Gitter
either so I
> >> > > wonder if it's gonna be viable in the long term.
> >> > >
> >> > > I suppose we'll see.
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Guillaume
> >> > >
> >> > > On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 8:58 AM Yoann Rodiere
<yoann(a)hibernate.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> The WildFly team is moving from Slack to Zulip, because Zulip
seems
> >> to be
> >> > >> the only solution that is free, provides unlimited history,
and
> >> allows
> >> > >> unlimited users even in private rooms (for OSS projects, at
least).
> >> Gitter
> >> > >> has all that, except unlimited users, as we are limited to 25
people
> >> per
> >> > >> private room.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> You can join them here:
https://wildfly.zulipchat.com/
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Back to our solution... We are now 71 days away from the
> >> decommissioning
> >> > >> of
> >> > >> HipChat. *Is everyone happy with Gitter?* Do you see a strong
reason
> >> to
> >> > >> keep looking for another solution?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> For my part, I noticed problems with the web client, in
particular
> >> with
> >> > >> notifications, which are sub-standard, but with the desktop
client
> >> > >> everything seems to work fine. It's simple, but it does
the job.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Yoann Rodière
> >> > >> Hibernate NoORM Team
> >> > >> yoann(a)hibernate.org
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 at 14:40, Yoann Rodiere
<yoann(a)hibernate.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> > On top of not being able to add more than 25 people to a
private
> >> room,
> >> > >> > there's another limitation of Gitter that Fabio just
noticed: the
> >> chat
> >> > >> > history for 1-to-1 conversations is very limited. In our
case, we
> >> can
> >> > >> only
> >> > >> > see 2 days back, and there's no concept of archives
like there is
> >> in
> >> > >> rooms.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Meanwhile, the WildFly team is giving up on Slack
because of the
> >> very
> >> > >> > limited size of history in free plans. They are
investigating
> >> Zulip,
> >> > >> > RocketChat and MatterMost in particular. Maybe let's
see what they
> >> end
> >> > >> up
> >> > >> > choosing and why?
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Yoann Rodière
> >> > >> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> >> > >> > yoann(a)hibernate.org
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 11:33, Yoann Rodiere
<yoann(a)hibernate.org>
> >> > >> wrote:
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >> On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 08:49, Yoann Rodiere
<yoann(a)hibernate.org>
> >> > >> wrote:
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >>> > Assuming the new chat platform takes off,
there's a risk it
> >> might be
> >> > >> >>> too successful as well
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >> >>> Ok. Well, I guess we'll see. As I mentioned
above, I don't think
> >> > >> forcing
> >> > >> >>> people to have a GitHub account will be very
effective, but I
> >> can't
> >> > >> suggest
> >> > >> >>> a perfect solution either. Bots answering with a
few links
> >> > >> (documentation,
> >> > >> >>> etc.) to the first message of each user come to
mind, but that
> >> could
> >> > >> be
> >> > >> >>> considered rude, so I wouldn't do that
unless the traffic becomes
> >> > >> >>> unmanageable. Other solutions include kicking
out "spammers"
> >> (but that
> >> > >> >>> doesn't work if it's many users asking a
single question), or
> >> making
> >> > >> the
> >> > >> >>> -dev rooms invite-only and only checking the
user rooms once in a
> >> > >> while
> >> > >> >>> (might work if Gitter sends emails when your are
mentioned while
> >> > >> offline).
> >> > >> >>> So, yeah, in short: I don't really know.
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >> >>> > More just accountability. But if some form
of login in needed
> >> to
> >> > >> use
> >> > >> >>> Gitter, that's enough for me. Sounded like
the other option was
> >> > >> "allow
> >> > >> >>> anonymous", which I wanted to avoid.
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >> >>> Then it should be fine: anonymous access
apparently only allows
> >> to
> >> > >> read
> >> > >> >>> messages. Login through GitLab, GitHub or
Twitter is necessary in
> >> > >> order to
> >> > >> >>> start posting new messages.
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >> >>> Yoann Rodière
> >> > >> >>> Hibernate NoORM Team
> >> > >> >>> yoann(a)hibernate.org
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >> >>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 19:34, Steve Ebersole
<
> >> steve(a)hibernate.org>
> >> > >> >>> wrote:
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >> >>>> For me its not so much about "the right
kind of people". More
> >> just
> >> > >> >>>> accountability. But if some form of login
in needed to use
> >> Gitter,
> >> > >> that's
> >> > >> >>>> enough for me. Sounded like the other
option was "allow
> >> anonymous",
> >> > >> which
> >> > >> >>>> I wanted to avoid.
> >> > >> >>>>
> >> > >> >>>> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:41 AM Sanne
Grinovero <
> >> > >> sanne(a)hibernate.org>
> >> > >> >>>> wrote:
> >> > >> >>>>
> >> > >> >>>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 17:27, Yoann
Rodiere <
> >> yoann(a)hibernate.org>
> >> > >> >>>>> wrote:
> >> > >> >>>>> >
> >> > >> >>>>> > I don't see why we should force
people to have a GitHub
> >> account,
> >> > >> >>>>> considering there are other means of
logging into Gitter.
> >> > >> >>>>>
> >> > >> >>>>> Ok.
> >> > >> >>>>>
> >> > >> >>>>> >
> >> > >> >>>>> > As to getting the right type of
people, I'm not sure it's
> >> > >> relevant.
> >> > >> >>>>> Most people are likely to have one, and
those who don't are
> >> likely
> >> > >> to not
> >> > >> >>>>> have one for political reasons (think
free software extremists)
> >> > >> rather than
> >> > >> >>>>> because they aren't tech savvy
enough: while the "hibernate"
> >> naming
> >> > >> might
> >> > >> >>>>> confuse users looking for information
about grizzly bears, I
> >> doubt
> >> > >> my
> >> > >> >>>>> grandmother, my 7-year-old nephew or
even my
> >> non-software-engineer
> >> > >> of a
> >> > >> >>>>> wife would end up on Gitter by mistake.
> >> > >> >>>>>
> >> > >> >>>>> Well since that's obvious, clearly I
was referring to a
> >> different
> >> > >> way
> >> > >> >>>>> of cathegorizing people joining@ not by
age or expertise in
> >> > >> technology
> >> > >> >>>>> but in having reasonable expectations
and willing to do some
> >> > >> research
> >> > >> >>>>> before bothering us all.
> >> > >> >>>>>
> >> > >> >>>>> You probably weren't around yet, but
Hibernate has had hard
> >> times in
> >> > >> >>>>> which it was "victim of its own
success": just too many
> >> > >> >>>>> kinda-interested people making a ton of
basic questions that
> >> could
> >> > >> be
> >> > >> >>>>> easily solved otherwise.
> >> > >> >>>>>
> >> > >> >>>>> Some "barriers" we have in
place have made it manageable; of
> >> course
> >> > >> I
> >> > >> >>>>> can't tell if it's all merit of
the barriers of entry or just
> >> people
> >> > >> >>>>> coming in lower volumes with better
intentions, but I'm
> >> confident
> >> > >> that
> >> > >> >>>>> some of the barriers we have have helped
to keep some sanity
> >> (e.g.
> >> > >> >>>>> login on #hibernate-dev on IRC requiring
an account).
> >> > >> >>>>>
> >> > >> >>>>> Assuming the new chat platform takes
off, there's a risk it
> >> might be
> >> > >> >>>>> too successful as well. But I guess
we'll see, or let's use a
> >> very
> >> > >> >>>>> bad chat platform so to keep people from
coming :P
> >> > >> >>>>>
> >> > >> >>>>> >
> >> > >> >>>>> >
> >> > >> >>>>> > Yoann Rodière
> >> > >> >>>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> >> > >> >>>>> > yoann(a)hibernate.org
> >> > >> >>>>> >
> >> > >> >>>>> >
> >> > >> >>>>> > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 18:02, Sanne
Grinovero <
> >> > >> sanne(a)hibernate.org>
> >> > >> >>>>> wrote:
> >> > >> >>>>> >>
> >> > >> >>>>> >> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 16:02,
Steve Ebersole <
> >> > >> steve(a)hibernate.org>
> >> > >> >>>>> wrote:
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >
> >> > >> >>>>> >> > What is it a conscious
decision to not require a GitHub
> >> account
> >> > >> >>>>> to join these rooms? I just noticed
that is a toggle-option
> >> in the
> >> > >> room's
> >> > >> >>>>> settings also.
> >> > >> >>>>> >>
> >> > >> >>>>> >> I don't remember. We
created these rooms as an experiment in
> >> > >> 2014..
> >> > >> >>>>> >> Yoann created some more rooms
recently.
> >> > >> >>>>> >>
> >> > >> >>>>> >> Should we enforce people to
have a Github account? I'd like
> >> > >> that, I
> >> > >> >>>>> >> think it would better nudge
towards getting the right type
> >> of
> >> > >> people
> >> > >> >>>>> >> to join.
> >> > >> >>>>> >>
> >> > >> >>>>> >> Thanks,
> >> > >> >>>>> >> Sanne
> >> > >> >>>>> >>
> >> > >> >>>>> >>
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >
> >> > >> >>>>> >> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at
6:17 AM Guillaume Smet <
> >> > >> >>>>> guillaume.smet(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >>
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018
at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero <
> >> > >> >>>>> sanne(a)hibernate.org>
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> wrote:
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >>
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > If one wants a
lot of features then clearly only Slack
> >> is
> >> > >> the
> >> > >> >>>>> way to
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > go. Not saying we
should go with Slack, just that
> >> we'll need
> >> > >> >>>>> to be
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > patient and
we'll always be short of some features - if
> >> > >> that's
> >> > >> >>>>> not
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > acceptable then
only Slack will make you happy.
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> >
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >>
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> TBH, I don't care
about fancy features. Gitter is OK for
> >> me
> >> > >> but
> >> > >> >>>>> yeah not
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> having sound is really
annoying.
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >>
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> I might miss
notifications from time to time.
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >>
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> In any case, it will
mostly be a problem for you all if
> >> you
> >> > >> ping
> >> > >> >>>>> me :).
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >>
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >>
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > BTW the issue you
linked to suggests the native clients
> >> > >> don't
> >> > >> >>>>> have
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > this specific
problem.. might want to try that?
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> >
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >>
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> I prefer to have it in
the browser where I do most of my
> >> > >> >>>>> interactions with
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> people.
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >>
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote
they were only packaged as deb
> >> (and not
> >> > >> >>>>> very excited
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> about compiling it).
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >>
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> BTW, tbh, I'm a
bit worried GitLab has only one dev on
> >> it if
> >> > >> >>>>> they want to
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> become a player in
this area. They certainly have some
> >> work to
> >> > >> >>>>> do to catch
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> up with others.
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >>
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> --
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> Guillaume
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >>
_______________________________________________
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> hibernate-dev mailing
list
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >>
hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> >> > >> >>>>> >> >>
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >> > >> >>>>> >>
_______________________________________________
> >> > >> >>>>> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> > >> >>>>> >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> >> > >> >>>>> >>
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >> > >> >>>>>
> >> > >> >>>>
> >> > >> _______________________________________________
> >> > >> hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> > >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> >> > >>
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> >> >
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> >>
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >
> >
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