11:30 p.m.
Please do not backport any fixes that are not blockers. If you are not sure
if an issue is a blocker, then please ask before pushing to 5.0.
Thanks,
Gail
6:40 p.m.
To be honest, I think its best if we somehow notify you for issues fixed
that we think should be considered for inclusion on 5.0 branch and you can
decide. A label or a filter. Something like that
On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 5:30 PM Gail Badner <gbadner(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Please do not backport any fixes that are not blockers. If you are
not sure
if an issue is a blocker, then please ask before pushing to 5.0.
Thanks,
Gail
_______________________________________________
hibernate-dev mailing list
hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
10:17 p.m.
On 17 March 2016 at 17:40, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org> wrote:
To be honest, I think its best if we somehow notify you for issues
fixed
that we think should be considered for inclusion on 5.0 branch and you can
decide. A label or a filter. Something like that
+1 Shouldn't any bug be considered? Even if it's not a blocker but
it's annoying ..
Personally I'd use a JIRA filter based on the "affects" field and
type=bug; if any you might want a label to exclude them from this list
so you don't have to review an ever-growing list.
-- Sanne
On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 5:30 PM Gail Badner <gbadner(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> Please do not backport any fixes that are not blockers. If you are not sure
> if an issue is a blocker, then please ask before pushing to 5.0.
>
> Thanks,
> Gail
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>
_______________________________________________
hibernate-dev mailing list
hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
3:34 p.m.
Stupid question probably: Why do we maintain 5.0.x at all, now that
5.1.0.Final is out? Is it that EAP or WF will continue to be using
5.0.x? If so, why is that, couldn't they move to 5.1?
2016-03-17 22:17 GMT+01:00 Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org>:
On 17 March 2016 at 17:40, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org>
wrote:
> To be honest, I think its best if we somehow notify you for issues fixed
> that we think should be considered for inclusion on 5.0 branch and you can
> decide. A label or a filter. Something like that
+1 Shouldn't any bug be considered? Even if it's not a blocker but
it's annoying ..
Personally I'd use a JIRA filter based on the "affects" field and
type=bug; if any you might want a label to exclude them from this list
so you don't have to review an ever-growing list.
-- Sanne
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 5:30 PM Gail Badner <gbadner(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> Please do not backport any fixes that are not blockers. If you are not sure
>> if an issue is a blocker, then please ask before pushing to 5.0.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Gail
>> _______________________________________________
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
_______________________________________________
hibernate-dev mailing list
hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
5:50 p.m.
On 18 Mar 2016 14:34, "Gunnar Morling" <gunnar(a)hibernate.org> wrote:
Stupid question probably: Why do we maintain 5.0.x at all, now that
5.1.0.Final is out? Is it that EAP or WF will continue to be using
5.0.x? If so, why is that, couldn't they move to 5.1?
EAP will be supported for many years so that requires us to support 5.0 for
very long, and I guess that's why Gail would prefer to limit backports to
the essential (minimum risk of unwanted changes)
But even beyond product requirements, as an OSS project first I would be a
disappointed user to see support dropped so quickly from a recent major
release: I suspect abandoning 5.0 already would not be popular at all.
Personally I would see us support 4.3 too but I understand we'd need more
help for that to be feasible so that's life.. Hard to define what's the
right threshold for sure, so it's up to those who do the job to decide..
But dropping 5.0 seems way premature to me to the point that I'd rather
slow down other R&D.
2016-03-17 22:17 GMT+01:00 Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org>:
> On 17 March 2016 at 17:40, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org> wrote:
>> To be honest, I think its best if we somehow notify you for issues
fixed
>> that we think should be considered for inclusion on 5.0
branch and you
can
>> decide. A label or a filter. Something like that
>
>
> +1 Shouldn't any bug be considered? Even if it's not a blocker but
> it's annoying ..
>
> Personally I'd use a JIRA filter based on the "affects" field and
> type=bug; if any you might want a label to exclude them from this list
> so you don't have to review an ever-growing list.
>
> -- Sanne
>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 5:30 PM Gail Badner <gbadner(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Please do not backport any fixes that are not blockers. If you are
not
sure
>>> if an issue is a blocker, then please ask before pushing
to 5.0.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Gail
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>>> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
_______________________________________________
hibernate-dev mailing list
hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
8:55 p.m.
2016-03-18 17:50 GMT+01:00 Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org>:
On 18 Mar 2016 14:34, "Gunnar Morling" <gunnar(a)hibernate.org> wrote:
>
> Stupid question probably: Why do we maintain 5.0.x at all, now that
> 5.1.0.Final is out? Is it that EAP or WF will continue to be using
> 5.0.x? If so, why is that, couldn't they move to 5.1?
EAP will be supported for many years so that requires us to support 5.0 for
very long, and I guess that's why Gail would prefer to limit backports to
the essential (minimum risk of unwanted changes)
I understand about EAP, but why not start the support cycle with the
latest and greatest at that time? There is a 5.1 Final, so why take an
earlier one?
Not my call of course, just sincerely curious.
But even beyond product requirements, as an OSS project first I would be a
disappointed user to see support dropped so quickly from a recent major
release: I suspect abandoning 5.0 already would not be popular at all.
I rather see this on the level of major versions: The 5.x family is
kept alive, and as a user I'd track minors as they come out, expecting
that they are (largely) compatible and upgrading is not too hard.
I know we are not super-strict about SemVer (though I'd love that),
but I'd assume most users wouldn't expect an OSS project to keep alive
several minors of the same major in parallel. Well, at least I
wouldn't expect that as a user ;)
Personally I would see us support 4.3 too but I understand we'd need more
help for that to be feasible so that's life.. Hard to define what's the
right threshold for sure, so it's up to those who do the job to decide.. But
dropping 5.0 seems way premature to me to the point that I'd rather slow
down other R&D.
Tbh. I'd even better understand the wish for further 4.3.x bug fix
releases than for 5.0.x as it's a different major.
>
> 2016-03-17 22:17 GMT+01:00 Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org>:
> > On 17 March 2016 at 17:40, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org> wrote:
> >> To be honest, I think its best if we somehow notify you for issues
> >> fixed
> >> that we think should be considered for inclusion on 5.0 branch and you
> >> can
> >> decide. A label or a filter. Something like that
> >
> >
> > +1 Shouldn't any bug be considered? Even if it's not a blocker but
> > it's annoying ..
> >
> > Personally I'd use a JIRA filter based on the "affects" field and
> > type=bug; if any you might want a label to exclude them from this list
> > so you don't have to review an ever-growing list.
> >
> > -- Sanne
> >
> >>
> >> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 5:30 PM Gail Badner <gbadner(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
> >>
> >>> Please do not backport any fixes that are not blockers. If you are not
> >>> sure
> >>> if an issue is a blocker, then please ask before pushing to 5.0.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Gail
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> hibernate-dev mailing list
> >>> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> >>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> > _______________________________________________
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> _______________________________________________
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
9:37 p.m.
Sorry for the late response. Answers below...
On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Gunnar Morling <gunnar(a)hibernate.org>
wrote:
2016-03-18 17:50 GMT+01:00 Sanne Grinovero
<sanne(a)hibernate.org>:
>
> On 18 Mar 2016 14:34, "Gunnar Morling" <gunnar(a)hibernate.org>
wrote:
>>
>> Stupid question probably: Why do we maintain 5.0.x at all, now that
>> 5.1.0.Final is out? Is it that EAP or WF will continue to be using
>> 5.0.x? If so, why is that, couldn't they move to 5.1?
>
> EAP will be supported for many years so that requires us to support 5.0
for
> very long, and I guess that's why Gail would prefer to limit backports
to
> the essential (minimum risk of unwanted changes)
I understand about EAP, but why not start the support cycle with the
latest and greatest at that time? There is a 5.1 Final, so why take an
earlier one?
Not my call of course, just sincerely curious.
Hibernate ORM 5.0 is a product branch. Releases from this branch are
incorporated into RedHat products, and this work has been going on for some
time and will continue for years.
Hibernate 5.1 will probably become a product branch in the not too distant
future, so that will also be maintained for years.
>
> But even beyond product requirements, as an OSS project first I would be
a
> disappointed user to see support dropped so quickly from a recent major
> release: I suspect abandoning 5.0 already would not be popular at all.
I rather see this on the level of major versions: The 5.x family is
kept alive, and as a user I'd track minors as they come out, expecting
that they are (largely) compatible and upgrading is not too hard.
Yes, this is the intention.
I know we are not super-strict about SemVer (though I'd love that),
but I'd assume most users wouldn't expect an OSS project to keep alive
several minors of the same major in parallel. Well, at least I
wouldn't expect that as a user ;)
>
> Personally I would see us support 4.3 too but I understand we'd need more
> help for that to be feasible so that's life.. Hard to define what's the
> right threshold for sure, so it's up to those who do the job to decide..
But
> dropping 5.0 seems way premature to me to the point that I'd rather slow
> down other R&D.
Tbh. I'd even better understand the wish for further 4.3.x bug fix
releases than for 5.0.x as it's a different major.
We are currently supporting master (for 5.1), 5.0, and I imagine master
will be branched before too long.
>
>>
>> 2016-03-17 22:17 GMT+01:00 Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org>:
>> > On 17 March 2016 at 17:40, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org>
wrote:
>> >> To be honest, I think its best if we somehow notify you for issues
>> >> fixed
>> >> that we think should be considered for inclusion on 5.0 branch and
you
>> >> can
>> >> decide. A label or a filter. Something like that
>> >
I like the idea of a label. I'll send another email with my ideas.
>> >
>> > +1 Shouldn't any bug be considered? Even if it's not a blocker but
>> > it's annoying ..
I have found that even very simple fixes can caused regressions. If there
was a workaround, then the regression adds a lot of unnecessary work to
product releases.
Fixing bugs in a Hibernate product version involves many more people than
just the developer doing sustaining work. It involves customer support,
quality assurance, product management, build management, and documentation,
and may include others to determine that a bug in a product originated in
Hibernate.
There is no question about blockers. A blocker should be fixed in Hibernate
5.0. If something is really annoying and it does not have a workaround,
then it could rise to the level of a blocker. At this point, we still have
our hands full with blockers, and those fixes also run the risk of
regressions.
Regarding other fixes, by all means, fix in master (for 5.1). If it turns
out the fix is needed in 5.0, I will backport it. Delaying the backport has
the advantage of giving time for regressions to be reported and fixed
before being released in a product.
>> >
>> > Personally I'd use a JIRA filter based on the "affects" field
and
>> > type=bug; if any you might want a label to exclude them from this list
>> > so you don't have to review an ever-growing list.
We have a couple of labels like this. I'll send a separate email with
details.
Regards,
Gail
>> >
>> > -- Sanne
>> >
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 5:30 PM Gail Badner <gbadner(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Please do not backport any fixes that are not blockers. If you are
not
>> >>> sure
>> >>> if an issue is a blocker, then please ask before pushing to 5.0.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks,
>> >>> Gail
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> >>> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
>> >>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> >>>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
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6 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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Gail Badner -
Gunnar Morling -
Sanne Grinovero -
Steve Ebersole