That is great Mark , But we need this a little early as we are evaluating drools against our Business requirements and till now it meets most of the requirements , not sure if i can post my questions for drools team and will be able to get the answers so that i can show my confidence against drools and recommend it.

Please let me know. Regards, Ashish On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Darren Hartford <dhartford(a)ghsinc.com <mailto:dhartford@ghsinc.com>> wrote: One discussion that might be helpful for those that are evaluating Drools (or rather, rule engines in general) is talking about items like: 1) What steps to take to convert an existing application to instead use Drools (and the benefits/gains). Specifically, what parts of some type of sample application would be better handled in Drools rather than raw java code, and what should be left as-is (with emphasis on change management/quick change support gains when swapping to Drools). 2) Starting a new application, how to start the application creation process to get the most benefit out of Drools (from requirements gathering -> implementation -> deployed and now need to make other changes). I know those sound too much like business stuff than geeky stuff, but sometimes the geek in us wants to hand-code everything and we need some good guidance/real-world hands-on reasoning for a better approach. My two coppers, -D -----Original Message----- From: rules-users-bounces(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-users-bounces@lists.jboss.org> [mailto:rules-users-bounces@lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-users-bounces@lists.jboss.org>] On Behalf Of Knapp, Barry Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 8:44 AM To: Rules Users List; Rules Dev List Cc: Burr Sutter Subject: RE: [rules-users] Drools Community Clinic Feb 4th 5PM GMT Mark, This is an awesome idea! In my company I am often talking about and promoting Drools so what is most interesting to my audience is how you guys are fine tuning the BRMS and Execution integrations as well as making it easier to incorporate the engine into an existing bus. The incorporation into an existing bus had always been one of the more customized areas where I spend time mapping a custom xml to the fact model, but with the new pipeline features in the M5 release it sounds like this integration is much easier. I would really like to see a simple walkthrough example of these new features. Once I have this under my belt I feel pretty confident that I can have brown bags at my own company and go from nothing to a complete management / execution environment that can process xml requests in about 60 minutes. That kind of turnaround can seal the deal! Thanks- Barry -----Original Message----- From: rules-users-bounces(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-users-bounces@lists.jboss.org> [mailto:rules-users-bounces@lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-users-bounces@lists.jboss.org>] On Behalf Of Mark Proctor Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 6:43 AM To: Rules Users List; Rules Dev List Cc: Burr Sutter Subject: [rules-users] Drools Community Clinic Feb 4th 5PM GMT I'm going to try an informal experiment for the 4th of February at 5PM GMT (Date/Time subject to change), we will run an online Drools Clinic in the form of a Webinar. So the idea here isn't of a 60 minute presentation, but really more of a 60 minute interactive Q&A where we will use the desktop to assist in some explanations talking through code or examples. What do people think? Ideally we would have a set of pre-determined questions, with some adhoc ones on the day too. Feel free to start listing your Qs here. I want to avoid "What's WorkingMemory" type questions, but other than that, anything is game. Also if anyone has anything cool they would like to discuss about how they have used Drools, or just general interesting AI ideas, then that's fine too - happy for this just to turn into a fun geek chat too. Mark _______________________________________________ rules-users mailing list rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-users@lists.jboss.org> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users _______________________________________________ rules-users mailing list rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-users@lists.jboss.org> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users _______________________________________________ rules-users mailing list rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-users@lists.jboss.org> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ rules-users mailing list rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users

I like this idea. My need is to have the ability to get things up and running fast. My out of box experience with Guvnor was very positive. I'd like to know how to repeat that using the Execution Server in conjunction with Guvnor. Perhaps having a pre-built generica Java object for the knowledge-base-request. Of course, by the time this clinic comes up,

should have all that figured out, but I would be willing to bet there will be more eloquent ways of doing it.

Robert Costello -----Original Message----- From: rules-users-bounces(a)lists.jboss.org [mailto:rules-users-bounces@lists.jboss.org] On Behalf Of Mark Proctor Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 5:43 AM To: Rules Users List; Rules Dev List Cc: Burr Sutter Subject: [rules-users] Drools Community Clinic Feb 4th 5PM GMT I'm going to try an informal experiment for the 4th of February at 5PM

GMT (Date/Time subject to change), we will run an online Drools Clinic

in the form of a Webinar. So the idea here isn't of a 60 minute presentation, but really more of a 60 minute interactive Q&A where we will use the desktop to assist in some explanations talking through

or examples. What do people think? Ideally we would have a set of pre-determined questions, with some

ones on the day too. Feel free to start listing your Qs here. I want

avoid "What's WorkingMemory" type questions, but other than that, anything is game. Also if anyone has anything cool they would like to discuss about how they have used Drools, or just general interesting

ideas, then that's fine too - happy for this just to turn into a fun geek chat too. Mark _______________________________________________ rules-users mailing list rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users _______________________________________________ rules-users mailing list rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users

Sounds like a very good idea. If you go forward with this, I'd love to see your method for solving the following type of problem: I need to update a particular object without causing the rule to re-fire. Say I have two classes, Stack and Board. I need to choose the Stack to put each Board, so one of these sorting rulles would look like this: when board : Board (thickness == 1) stack : Stack (location == "A") then board.setStack(stack); update(board); end The problem is the update statement puts the rule back in the Agenda to be fired again, thus an infinite loop. My solution in general has been to use a Collection to track boards that have been processed, but it seems to be alot of overhead. I'm not pleased by my solution. when board : Board (thickness == 1) stack : Stack (location == "A") processed : NamedCollection(name == "BoardsSorted", collection not contains board) then board.setStack(stack); update(board); processed.add(board); update(processed); end Also, the NamedCollection needs to be created, which I'm doing within the ruleset, which adds a somewhat meaningless to Business Analysts rule. Though I could create the NamedCollection in Java and add it to WorkingMemory prior to firing the rules, I'd like the rulesets to take care of themselves. My actual problem set is laced with many solutions that need to update objects. Even if the object is not directly related to the rule criteria, a map to the object needs to be created in the RHS so the LHS has a reference to the object being updated, thus posing the same problem as above. Your insights would be greatly appreciated. Mark Proctor wrote: > > I'm going to try an informal experiment for the 4th of February at 5PM > GMT (Date/Time subject to change), we will run an online Drools Clinic > in the form of a Webinar. So the idea here isn't of a 60 minute > presentation, but really more of a 60 minute interactive Q&A where we > will use the desktop to assist in some explanations talking through code > or examples. What do people think? > > Ideally we would have a set of pre-determined questions, with some adhoc > ones on the day too. Feel free to start listing your Qs here. I want to > avoid "What's WorkingMemory" type questions, but other than that, > anything is game. Also if anyone has anything cool they would like to > discuss about how they have used Drools, or just general interesting AI > ideas, then that's fine too - happy for this just to turn into a fun > geek chat too. > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > rules-users mailing list > rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users > > -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Drools-Community-Clinic-Feb-4th-5PM-GMT-tp21623144p... Sent from the drools - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ rules-users mailing list rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users

Sounds like a very good idea. If you go forward with this, I'd love to see your method for solving the following type of problem: I need to update a particular object without causing the rule to re-fire. Say I have two classes, Stack and Board. I need to choose the Stack to put each Board, so one of these sorting rulles would look like this: when board : Board (thickness == 1) stack : Stack (location == "A") then board.setStack(stack); update(board); end The problem is the update statement puts the rule back in the Agenda to be fired again, thus an infinite loop. My solution in general has been to use a Collection to track boards that have been processed, but it seems to be alot of overhead. I'm not pleased by my solution. when board : Board (thickness == 1) stack : Stack (location == "A") processed : NamedCollection(name == "BoardsSorted", collection not contains board) then board.setStack(stack); update(board); processed.add(board); update(processed); end Also, the NamedCollection needs to be created, which I'm doing within the ruleset, which adds a somewhat meaningless to Business Analysts rule. Though I could create the NamedCollection in Java and add it to WorkingMemory prior to firing the rules, I'd like the rulesets to take care of themselves. My actual problem set is laced with many solutions that need to update objects. Even if the object is not directly related to the rule criteria, a map to the object needs to be created in the RHS so the LHS has a reference to the object being updated, thus posing the same problem as above. Your insights would be greatly appreciated. Mark Proctor wrote: > I'm going to try an informal experiment for the 4th of February at 5PM > GMT (Date/Time subject to change), we will run an online Drools Clinic > in the form of a Webinar. So the idea here isn't of a 60 minute > presentation, but really more of a 60 minute interactive Q&A where we > will use the desktop to assist in some explanations talking through code > or examples. What do people think? > > Ideally we would have a set of pre-determined questions, with some adhoc > ones on the day too. Feel free to start listing your Qs here. I want to > avoid "What's WorkingMemory" type questions, but other than that, > anything is game. Also if anyone has anything cool they would like to > discuss about how they have used Drools, or just general interesting AI > ideas, then that's fine too - happy for this just to turn into a fun > geek chat too. > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > rules-users mailing list > rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users > > >

If no-loop is used with Rule 1 instead of lock-on-active, the rule will go into an infinite loop. I don't understand why no-loop doesn't work. Any guidance?

If lock-on-active is used on Rule 1 and Rule 2 (instead of no-loop), Rule 2 is never activated. It's interesting that no-loop works in Rule 2, but not in Rule 1.

I am familiar with both of these rule attributes. However, no-loop doesn't work in all cases, and lock-on-active needs a fairly fine-grained setup of activation groups or ruleflow groups in many circumstances. Also, lock-on-active can not block selective activations, it blocks all activations. So the activations you don't want to block have to go in a separate rule that doesn't have lock-on-active set. I think it would be useful for many in the group to see an example of appropriate use of these attributes, as well as possible solutions for when these attributes are inappropriate to use. Here are two rules that apply: rule "Rule 1" lock-on-active true when board : Board (thickness == 1) stack : Stack (location == "A") then stack.addBoard(board); update(stack); System.out.format ("Sorted: %s added to Stack %s\n", board, stack); end rule "Rule 2" salience 1 no-loop true when stack : Stack (size > 3) then stack.setStatus("Overflowing"); update (stack); System.out.format ("Stack %s\n", stack); for (Board stackBoard : stack.getBoards()) { System.out.format ("%20s\n", stackBoard); } end I've attached an Eclipse project that contains these rules for anyone that wants to play around with it. If no-loop is used with Rule 1 instead of lock-on-active, the rule will go into an infinite loop. I don't understand why no-loop doesn't work. Any guidance? If lock-on-active is used on Rule 1 and Rule 2 (instead of no-loop), Rule 2 is never activated. It's interesting that no-loop works in Rule 2, but not in Rule 1. Dan Mark Proctor wrote: > > see no-loop or the more powerful lock-on-active. > > Mark > Dan Seaver wrote: >> Sounds like a very good idea. If you go forward with this, I'd love to >> see >> your method for solving the following type of problem: >> >> I need to update a particular object without causing the rule to re-fire. >> >> Say I have two classes, Stack and Board. I need to choose the Stack to >> put >> each Board, so one of these sorting rulles would look like this: >> >> when >> board : Board (thickness == 1) >> stack : Stack (location == "A") >> then >> board.setStack(stack); >> update(board); >> end >> >> The problem is the update statement puts the rule back in the Agenda to >> be >> fired again, thus an infinite loop. My solution in general has been to >> use a >> Collection to track boards that have been processed, but it seems to be >> alot >> of overhead. I'm not pleased by my solution. >> >> when >> board : Board (thickness == 1) >> stack : Stack (location == "A") >> processed : NamedCollection(name == "BoardsSorted", collection not >> contains board) >> then >> board.setStack(stack); >> update(board); >> processed.add(board); >> update(processed); >> end >> >> Also, the NamedCollection needs to be created, which I'm doing within the >> ruleset, which adds a somewhat meaningless to Business Analysts rule. >> Though >> I could create the NamedCollection in Java and add it to WorkingMemory >> prior >> to firing the rules, I'd like the rulesets to take care of themselves. >> >> My actual problem set is laced with many solutions that need to update >> objects. Even if the object is not directly related to the rule criteria, >> a >> map to the object needs to be created in the RHS so the LHS has a >> reference >> to the object being updated, thus posing the same problem as above. >> >> Your insights would be greatly appreciated. >> >> >> Mark Proctor wrote: >> >>> I'm going to try an informal experiment for the 4th of February at 5PM >>> GMT (Date/Time subject to change), we will run an online Drools Clinic >>> in the form of a Webinar. So the idea here isn't of a 60 minute >>> presentation, but really more of a 60 minute interactive Q&A where we >>> will use the desktop to assist in some explanations talking through code >>> or examples. What do people think? >>> >>> Ideally we would have a set of pre-determined questions, with some adhoc >>> ones on the day too. Feel free to start listing your Qs here. I want to >>> avoid "What's WorkingMemory" type questions, but other than that, >>> anything is game. Also if anyone has anything cool they would like to >>> discuss about how they have used Drools, or just general interesting AI >>> ideas, then that's fine too - happy for this just to turn into a fun >>> geek chat too. >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> rules-users mailing list >>> rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org >>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > rules-users mailing list > rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users > > http://www.nabble.com/file/p21671931/tests.zip tests.zip -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Drools-Community-Clinic-Feb-4th-5PM-GMT-tp21623144p... Sent from the drools - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ rules-users mailing list rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users

Yes, I understand why Rule 2 doesn't fire when the attribute is set to lock-on-active, but why does no-loop work with Rule 2, but not with Rule 1?

Greg's solution would work just fine. The only issue I have with it is that the business requirements usually specify A, B and C. They don't specify 'not D'. It is there only to make our rules work, which is not ideal. Just my 2c.

I'm going to try an informal experiment for the 4th of February at 5PM GMT (Date/Time subject to change), we will run an online Drools Clinic in the form of a Webinar. So the idea here isn't of a 60 minute presentation, but really more of a 60 minute interactive Q&A where we will use the desktop to assist in some explanations talking through code or examples. What do people think? Ideally we would have a set of pre-determined questions, with some adhoc ones on the day too. Feel free to start listing your Qs here. I want to avoid "What's WorkingMemory" type questions, but other than that, anything is game. Also if anyone has anything cool they would like to discuss about how they have used Drools, or just general interesting AI ideas, then that's fine too - happy for this just to turn into a fun geek chat too. Mark _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev