10:16 p.m.
Hi,
I'm interested in possibilities to convert (one-way) Drools to CLIPS rules. I've
followed the discussion about the canceled support for the CLIPS parser in Drools
("Drools Clips", last reply 2 Feb 2013). However, are there any options left to
make a one-way conversion?
My interest in this is that I currently do a little research about how to fill the gap
between central business rule engines and business process implementation and execution on
smartphones / tablets (iOS, Android, Windows Phone 8). Currently I'm under the opinion
that good old CLIPS could theoretically be a common denominator to enable common rule
definition, and partial execution of these on mobile devices.
Regards,
Benjamin Stadin
12:16 a.m.
drools-clips was both a parser and a shell. The parser basically converted clp fr drl, to
then be executed in a shell. There was however no interested in the project at all, so we
discontinued it.
The parser and converter might be salvageable, if the project is rescoped simply at a clp
to drl translation layer, it might be easier to re-include it again. I suspect as well a
reduced scope in effort, will make it easier for people to get involved.
So if anyone wants to give that a go, to rip open drools-clips, get the parser and
translator out, and get it working with 6.0.0.SNAPSHOT. That would be great :)
Mark
On 30 May 2013, at 21:16, "Stadin, Benjamin"
<Benjamin.Stadin(a)heidelberg-mobil.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'm interested in possibilities to convert (one-way) Drools to CLIPS rules. I've
followed the discussion about the canceled support for the CLIPS parser in Drools
("Drools Clips", last reply 2 Feb 2013). However, are there any options left to
make a one-way conversion?
My interest in this is that I currently do a little research about how to fill the gap
between central business rule engines and business process implementation and execution on
smartphones / tablets (iOS, Android, Windows Phone 8). Currently I'm under the opinion
that good old CLIPS could theoretically be a common denominator to enable common rule
definition, and partial execution of these on mobile devices.
Regards,
Benjamin Stadin
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
12:36 a.m.
I'd be willing to get involved, but since you mention clp to drl only, will it also
be possibly to convert drl to clp?
It could be my imagination only, but I think the possibility to define a process once for
a parent server instance and being able to execute (parts of the process) temporarily
elsewhere, without needing that big parent server for every piece of logic, is something
that is currently missing.
Ben
Von: Mark Proctor <mproctor@codehaus.org<mailto:mproctor@codehaus.org>>
Antworten an: Rules Users List
<rules-users@lists.jboss.org<mailto:rules-users@lists.jboss.org>>
Datum: Freitag, 31. Mai 2013 00:16
An: Rules Users List
<rules-users@lists.jboss.org<mailto:rules-users@lists.jboss.org>>
Betreff: Re: [rules-users] Translate Drools to CLIPS rules
drools-clips was both a parser and a shell. The parser basically converted clp fr drl, to
then be executed in a shell. There was however no interested in the project at all, so we
discontinued it.
The parser and converter might be salvageable, if the project is rescoped simply at a clp
to drl translation layer, it might be easier to re-include it again. I suspect as well a
reduced scope in effort, will make it easier for people to get involved.
So if anyone wants to give that a go, to rip open drools-clips, get the parser and
translator out, and get it working with 6.0.0.SNAPSHOT. That would be great :)
Mark
On 30 May 2013, at 21:16, "Stadin, Benjamin"
<Benjamin.Stadin@heidelberg-mobil.com<mailto:Benjamin.Stadin@heidelberg-mobil.com>>
wrote:
Hi,
I'm interested in possibilities to convert (one-way) Drools to CLIPS rules. I've
followed the discussion about the canceled support for the CLIPS parser in Drools
("Drools Clips", last reply 2 Feb 2013). However, are there any options left to
make a one-way conversion?
My interest in this is that I currently do a little research about how to fill the gap
between central business rule engines and business process implementation and execution on
smartphones / tablets (iOS, Android, Windows Phone 8). Currently I'm under the opinion
that good old CLIPS could theoretically be a common denominator to enable common rule
definition, and partial execution of these on mobile devices.
Regards,
Benjamin Stadin
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users@lists.jboss.org<mailto:rules-users@lists.jboss.org>
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
2:48 a.m.
On 30 May 2013, at 23:36, "Stadin, Benjamin"
<Benjamin.Stadin(a)heidelberg-mobil.com> wrote:
I'd be willing to get involved, but since you mention clp to drl
only, will it also be possibly to convert drl to clp?
yes. There is already a
"DrlDumper" that takes a Rule and dumps it to a string, using a bunch of
recursive mvel templates. You can copy/paste this and have it dump to CLP instead.
https://github.com/droolsjbpm/drools/blob/master/drools-compiler/src/main...
https://github.com/droolsjbpm/drools/blob/master/drools-compiler/src/main...
if you change the drl.mvel to a clp.mvel and change the text it outputs, you have yourself
a CLP<->DRL translator. The caveat ofcourse is you must keep to the common base
level of features between the two systems.
It could be my imagination only, but I think the possibility to define a process once for
a parent server instance and being able to execute (parts of the process) temporarily
elsewhere, without needing that big parent server for every piece of logic, is something
that is currently missing.
I'm confused, what's this to do with DRL and
CLP?
Mark
Ben
Von: Mark Proctor <mproctor(a)codehaus.org>
Antworten an: Rules Users List <rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org>
Datum: Freitag, 31. Mai 2013 00:16
An: Rules Users List <rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org>
Betreff: Re: [rules-users] Translate Drools to CLIPS rules
drools-clips was both a parser and a shell. The parser basically converted clp fr drl, to
then be executed in a shell. There was however no interested in the project at all, so we
discontinued it.
The parser and converter might be salvageable, if the project is rescoped simply at a clp
to drl translation layer, it might be easier to re-include it again. I suspect as well a
reduced scope in effort, will make it easier for people to get involved.
So if anyone wants to give that a go, to rip open drools-clips, get the parser and
translator out, and get it working with 6.0.0.SNAPSHOT. That would be great :)
Mark
On 30 May 2013, at 21:16, "Stadin, Benjamin"
<Benjamin.Stadin(a)heidelberg-mobil.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm interested in possibilities to convert (one-way) Drools to CLIPS rules.
I've followed the discussion about the canceled support for the CLIPS parser in Drools
("Drools Clips", last reply 2 Feb 2013). However, are there any options left to
make a one-way conversion?
>
> My interest in this is that I currently do a little research about how to fill the
gap between central business rule engines and business process implementation and
execution on smartphones / tablets (iOS, Android, Windows Phone 8). Currently I'm
under the opinion that good old CLIPS could theoretically be a common denominator to
enable common rule definition, and partial execution of these on mobile devices.
>
> Regards,
> Benjamin Stadin
> _______________________________________________
> rules-users mailing list
> rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
8:43 a.m.
On 31/05/2013, Mark Proctor <mproctor(a)codehaus.org> wrote:
On 30 May 2013, at 23:36, "Stadin, Benjamin"
<Benjamin.Stadin(a)heidelberg-mobil.com> wrote:
> I'd be willing to get involved, but since you mention clp to drl only,
> will it also be possibly to convert drl to clp?
yes. There is already a "DrlDumper" that takes a Rule and dumps it to a
string, using a bunch of recursive mvel templates. You can copy/paste this
and have it dump to CLP instead.
https://github.com/droolsjbpm/drools/blob/master/drools-compiler/src/main...
https://github.com/droolsjbpm/drools/blob/master/drools-compiler/src/main...
if you change the drl.mvel to a clp.mvel and change the text it outputs, you
have yourself a CLP<->DRL translator. The caveat ofcourse is you must keep
to the common base level of features between the two systems.
The first if is hiding an enormous amount of work. The template
drl.mvel appears to take arbitrarily long snippets of Java (or MVEL)
code and simply copy it into the result text: function bodies, eval
expressions, accumulate init, action and result code, and all of the
RHS. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it sure will keep you busy
for quite some time.
Translating Java expressions to CLP can't be done based on abstract
syntax. Consider, for instance,
stdout.println( a + b );
To be able to translate this to
printout( t (+ a b) )
you'd have to make sure that stdout is indeed the same as router t and
that a and b are numeric quantities - otherwise str-cat would be
required.
Copy/paste with a whole lot of magic ;-)
Wolfgang
1:44 p.m.
On 31 May 2013, at 07:43, Wolfgang Laun <wolfgang.laun(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 31/05/2013, Mark Proctor <mproctor(a)codehaus.org> wrote:
>
> On 30 May 2013, at 23:36, "Stadin, Benjamin"
> <Benjamin.Stadin(a)heidelberg-mobil.com> wrote:
>
>> I'd be willing to get involved, but since you mention clp to drl only,
>> will it also be possibly to convert drl to clp?
> yes. There is already a "DrlDumper" that takes a Rule and dumps it to a
> string, using a bunch of recursive mvel templates. You can copy/paste this
> and have it dump to CLP instead.
>
https://github.com/droolsjbpm/drools/blob/master/drools-compiler/src/main...
>
https://github.com/droolsjbpm/drools/blob/master/drools-compiler/src/main...
>
> if you change the drl.mvel to a clp.mvel and change the text it outputs, you
> have yourself a CLP<->DRL translator. The caveat ofcourse is you must keep
> to the common base level of features between the two systems.
The first if is hiding an enormous amount of work. The template
drl.mvel appears to take arbitrarily long snippets of Java (or MVEL)
code and simply copy it into the result text: function bodies, eval
expressions, accumulate init, action and result code, and all of the
RHS. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it sure will keep you busy
for quite some time.
Translating Java expressions to CLP can't be done based on abstract
syntax. Consider, for instance,
stdout.println( a + b );
To be able to translate this to
printout( t (+ a b) )
you'd have to make sure that stdout is indeed the same as router t and
that a and b are numeric quantities - otherwise str-cat would be
required.
Copy/paste with a whole lot of magic ;-)
yeah the LHS isn't so had, if they
stick to simple patterns, the RHS is a whole different kettle of fish :) You can load the
RHS into an antlr based java.g grammar, and try and translate it - but it wouldn't be
fun.
So probably best first to stick to clp->drl, which is more straight forward. Besides,
once you are on DRL, why would you want to go back to CLP :)
Mark
Wolfgang
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
3:30 p.m.
New subject: Archiving a jar archives it everywhere
Group,
We've been using Guvnor 5.4 for about 6 months. We've brought on a lot of new
people recently, and it's difficult to tell/remind them that archiving a package with
a jar from the global area archives that jar in all the other packages, too.
I can't find any indication that this is fixed in the 5.x versions. Does anybody know
if it's fixed in 6.x?
Thanks,
Joe
5:16 p.m.
New subject: Archiving a jar archives it everywhere
6.0 doesn't have a global area... so in that respect it is fixed.
In 6.0 shared libraries (containing items, rules, types etc) would be
uploaded to a central repository and added as dependencies to individual
projects.
We should (we don't yet) ensure removing a library from the repository
checks for usage before allowing removal.
On 31 May 2013 14:30, Fair, Joe <Joe.Fair(a)level3.com> wrote:
Group,
We've been using Guvnor 5.4 for about 6 months. We've brought on a lot of
new people recently, and it's difficult to tell/remind them that archiving
a package with a jar from the global area archives that jar in all the
other packages, too.
I can't find any indication that this is fixed in the 5.x versions. Does
anybody know if it's fixed in 6.x?
Thanks,
Joe
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
6:11 p.m.
On 31 May 2013 13:44, Mark Proctor <mproctor(a)codehaus.org> wrote:
On 31 May 2013, at 07:43, Wolfgang Laun <wolfgang.laun(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On 31/05/2013, Mark Proctor <mproctor(a)codehaus.org> wrote:
>>
>> On 30 May 2013, at 23:36, "Stadin, Benjamin"
>> <Benjamin.Stadin(a)heidelberg-mobil.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'd be willing to get involved, but since you mention clp to drl only,
>>> will it also be possibly to convert drl to clp?
>> yes. There is already a "DrlDumper" that takes a Rule and dumps it to
a
>> string, using a bunch of recursive mvel templates. You can copy/paste
this
>> and have it dump to CLP instead.
> Copy/paste with a whole lot of magic ;-)
yeah the LHS isn't so had, if they stick to simple patterns, the RHS is a
whole different kettle of fish :) You can load the RHS into an antlr based
java.g grammar, and try and translate it - but it wouldn't be fun.
So probably best first to stick to clp->drl, which is more straight
forward. Besides, once you are on DRL, why would you want to go back to CLP
:)
OP's primary intention seemed to be a DRL to CLP translator, which -
according to your first answer - was classified to be a simple copy/paste
endeavour. Not so.
-W
Mark
>
> Wolfgang
> _______________________________________________
> rules-users mailing list
> rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
6:54 p.m.
Indeed, that's what I need. General use case would be to have a "parent"
drools engine on a fat server, and small clips based rule engines - knowing at least the
parts of the process they have to care about.
I was also looking into rule exchange between those two, but it seems W3C rule exchange in
it's current state is not really useful.
________________________________________
Von: rules-users-bounces(a)lists.jboss.org [rules-users-bounces(a)lists.jboss.org] im Auftrag
von Wolfgang Laun [wolfgang.laun(a)gmail.com]
Gesendet: Freitag, 31. Mai 2013 18:11
An: Rules Users List
Betreff: Re: [rules-users] Translate Drools to CLIPS rules
On 31 May 2013 13:44, Mark Proctor
<mproctor@codehaus.org<mailto:mproctor@codehaus.org>> wrote:
On 31 May 2013, at 07:43, Wolfgang Laun
<wolfgang.laun@gmail.com<mailto:wolfgang.laun@gmail.com>> wrote:
On 31/05/2013, Mark Proctor
<mproctor@codehaus.org<mailto:mproctor@codehaus.org>> wrote:
>
> On 30 May 2013, at 23:36, "Stadin, Benjamin"
>
<Benjamin.Stadin@heidelberg-mobil.com<mailto:Benjamin.Stadin@heidelberg-mobil.com>>
wrote:
>
>> I'd be willing to get involved, but since you mention clp to drl only,
>> will it also be possibly to convert drl to clp?
> yes. There is already a "DrlDumper" that takes a Rule and dumps it to a
> string, using a bunch of recursive mvel templates. You can copy/paste this
> and have it dump to CLP instead.
Copy/paste with a whole lot of magic ;-)
yeah the LHS isn't so had, if they
stick to simple patterns, the RHS is a whole different kettle of fish :) You can load the
RHS into an antlr based java.g grammar, and try and translate it - but it wouldn't be
fun.
So probably best first to stick to clp->drl, which is more straight forward. Besides,
once you are on DRL, why would you want to go back to CLP :)
OP's primary intention seemed to be a DRL to CLP translator, which - according to your
first answer - was classified to be a simple copy/paste endeavour. Not so.
-W
Mark
Wolfgang
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users@lists.jboss.org<mailto:rules-users@lists.jboss.org>
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users@lists.jboss.org<mailto:rules-users@lists.jboss.org>
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
11:53 a.m.
Thanks all, I'll have a look into it.
Regarding DRL / CLP on mobile: For example, late's assume we have a central server
using Drools as rule engine. Now there is a need for native mobile apps that should work
"fluently" and which should also be able to function properly without internet
connection.
To date it's not uncommon that it comes down to really ugly hardcoded implementations.
Parts of the workflow and logic / validation has to be re-implemented on every mobile
platform, because the options for business rule engines that work on all platforms is very
limited. Language-wise, there is no Java on iOS and Windows Phone 8. But there is C/C++
possible for all platforms.
So in my opinion mobile applications could greatly benefit from a possibility to
understand at least the parts of rules of that central instance which they have to
implement in some way.
Or am I thinking in the wrong direction?
Ben
It could be my imagination only, but I think the possibility to define a process once for
a parent server instance and being able to execute (parts of the process) temporarily
elsewhere, without needing that big parent server for every piece of logic, is something
that is currently missing.
I'm confused, what's this to do with DRL and CLP?
Mark
Ben
Von: Mark Proctor <mproctor@codehaus.org<mailto:mproctor@codehaus.org>>
Antworten an: Rules Users List
<rules-users@lists.jboss.org<mailto:rules-users@lists.jboss.org>>
Datum: Freitag, 31. Mai 2013 00:16
An: Rules Users List
<rules-users@lists.jboss.org<mailto:rules-users@lists.jboss.org>>
Betreff: Re: [rules-users] Translate Drools to CLIPS rules
drools-clips was both a parser and a shell. The parser basically converted clp fr drl, to
then be executed in a shell. There was however no interested in the project at all, so we
discontinued it.
The parser and converter might be salvageable, if the project is rescoped simply at a clp
to drl translation layer, it might be easier to re-include it again. I suspect as well a
reduced scope in effort, will make it easier for people to get involved.
So if anyone wants to give that a go, to rip open drools-clips, get the parser and
translator out, and get it working with 6.0.0.SNAPSHOT. That would be great :)
Mark
On 30 May 2013, at 21:16, "Stadin, Benjamin"
<Benjamin.Stadin@heidelberg-mobil.com<mailto:Benjamin.Stadin@heidelberg-mobil.com>>
wrote:
Hi,
I'm interested in possibilities to convert (one-way) Drools to CLIPS rules. I've
followed the discussion about the canceled support for the CLIPS parser in Drools
("Drools Clips", last reply 2 Feb 2013). However, are there any options left to
make a one-way conversion?
My interest in this is that I currently do a little research about how to fill the gap
between central business rule engines and business process implementation and execution on
smartphones / tablets (iOS, Android, Windows Phone 8). Currently I'm under the opinion
that good old CLIPS could theoretically be a common denominator to enable common rule
definition, and partial execution of these on mobile devices.
Regards,
Benjamin Stadin
_______________________________________________
rules-users mailing list
rules-users@lists.jboss.org<mailto:rules-users@lists.jboss.org>
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
_______________________________________________
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rules-users@lists.jboss.org<mailto:rules-users@lists.jboss.org>
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
3983
days inactive
3984
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10 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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Fair, Joe -
Mark Proctor -
Michael Anstis -
Stadin, Benjamin -
Wolfgang Laun