Dimitris Andreadis [http://community.jboss.org/people/dimitris] created the discussion "Re: Thoughts on filesystem action driven hot deployment" To view the discussion, visit: http://community.jboss.org/message/593372#593372 -------------------------------------------------------------- I guess it would only help in case where you a recursive deletion of a big deployment could somehow trigger the scanner mid-ways. I agree they are useful. I am just saying that the ./deploy notion was successful because it was simple, albeit not perfect. The end users will have the final say, if they like the new mechanism, or not. -------------------------------------------------------------- Reply to this message by going to Community [http://community.jboss.org/message/593372#593372] Start a new discussion in JBoss AS7 Development at Community [http://community.jboss.org/choose-container!input.jspa?contentType=1&...]

Max Rydahl Andersen [http://community.jboss.org/people/maxandersen] created the discussion "Re: Thoughts on filesystem action driven hot deployment" To view the discussion, visit: http://community.jboss.org/message/593390#593390 -------------------------------------------------------------- I haven't seen JBAS-8907 yet, but I've seen a few others that are annoying for any user trying to deploy an app they got working on other AS's. https://issues.jboss.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&jqlQue... https://issues.jboss.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&jqlQue... But I guess that is where the beta comes in and drags out some more of these to be fixed. And yeah without the file based deployment I basically couldn't get AS7 to do anything in a "developer mode" - only small things deploys fine. btw. in hope to help adoption we're trying to get a the AS eclipse plugins available in our nightly build updatesite to at do the marker file dance ASAP. -------------------------------------------------------------- Reply to this message by going to Community [http://community.jboss.org/message/593390#593390] Start a new discussion in JBoss AS7 Development at Community [http://community.jboss.org/choose-container!input.jspa?contentType=1&...]

Ales Justin [http://community.jboss.org/people/alesj] created the discussion "Re: Thoughts on filesystem action driven hot deployment" To view the discussion, visit: http://community.jboss.org/message/593394#593394 -------------------------------------------------------------- What about if you leave the old one (which was used before Brian's update) as optional? e.g. users could fallback to that one if that's what they feel is "simpler" for them and they don't need all of the domain management magic -------------------------------------------------------------- Reply to this message by going to Community [http://community.jboss.org/message/593394#593394] Start a new discussion in JBoss AS7 Development at Community [http://community.jboss.org/choose-container!input.jspa?contentType=1&...]

Stan Silvert [http://community.jboss.org/people/ssilvert] created the discussion "Re: Thoughts on filesystem action driven hot deployment" To view the discussion, visit: http://community.jboss.org/message/593398#593398 -------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, it's a virtue!!!!   The out-of-box experience is the #1 thing you have to get right.  At first a developer wants to try out AS7 and get a WAR running without having to learn new concepts. ("WTF is a dodeploy file and how would I know that I need one??") This is a basic usability problem that has already been solved and we're taking a step backwards. So just make the old deployment mechanism only available on standalone.  That's the main place you need it.  Stan -------------------------------------------------------------- Reply to this message by going to Community [http://community.jboss.org/message/593398#593398] Start a new discussion in JBoss AS7 Development at Community [http://community.jboss.org/choose-container!input.jspa?contentType=1&...]

Dimitris Andreadis [http://community.jboss.org/people/dimitris] created the discussion "Re: Thoughts on filesystem action driven hot deployment" To view the discussion, visit: http://community.jboss.org/message/593430#593430 -------------------------------------------------------------- I am sure there are a tons of other more important things to do at this stage than discussing a hot deployment file-based API, so yes, if anyone has a different opinion can go ahead and implement it. On the other hand, independently of the underlying technical restrictions that suggest a certain design over another,I think the issue with this thread is that there doesn't seem to be an agreement as to what are the requirements. Without it, no matter what you implement, it is not going to be accepted. -------------------------------------------------------------- Reply to this message by going to Community [http://community.jboss.org/message/593430#593430] Start a new discussion in JBoss AS7 Development at Community [http://community.jboss.org/choose-container!input.jspa?contentType=1&...]

Brian Stansberry [http://community.jboss.org/people/brian.stansberry] created the discussion "Re: Thoughts on filesystem action driven hot deployment" To view the discussion, visit: http://community.jboss.org/message/593526#593526 -------------------------------------------------------------- Ales Justin wrote: Yes, and it *very much* appreciated. There is a lot of excellent contribution in the form of ideas and feedback on this thread, including Stan's post just above. But for some reason, I just needed to see a patch from someone. -------------------------------------------------------------- Reply to this message by going to Community [http://community.jboss.org/message/593526#593526] Start a new discussion in JBoss AS7 Development at Community [http://community.jboss.org/choose-container!input.jspa?contentType=1&...]

Jason Greene [http://community.jboss.org/people/jason.greene] created the discussion "Re: Thoughts on filesystem action driven hot deployment" To view the discussion, visit: http://community.jboss.org/message/593628#593628 -------------------------------------------------------------- 3 is referring to exploded directories. Also since I am replying again, I just want to mention that windows hasn't defaulted to diaplaying 3 char extensions in a long long time. In fact I would argue that java 6 probably doesn't even support these versions. -------------------------------------------------------------- Reply to this message by going to Community [http://community.jboss.org/message/593628#593628] Start a new discussion in JBoss AS7 Development at Community [http://community.jboss.org/choose-container!input.jspa?contentType=1&...]

Dimitris Andreadis [http://community.jboss.org/people/dimitris] created the discussion "Re: Thoughts on filesystem action driven hot deployment" To view the discussion, visit: http://community.jboss.org/message/593704#593704 -------------------------------------------------------------- I need to apologize for jumping in and out of this thread a couple of times and I understand the frustration from the people actually implementing the stuff. It's has been a very long discussion (and I actually went through the entire thread yesterday to re-establish context) but you need to understand we don't critisize just for the fun of it, but because we feel it is important for our users and customers to get this right. The old mechanism had its problems but it cannot be outrightly dismissed saying it was broken. It's been in use for a decade and it was one of the key features of JBoss (drag&drop an archive to hotdeploy it, remove to undeploy), a feature that everybody loved and all our competitors copied. Hundrends of thousands of users are already familiar with it. Remember also farming, a mechanism that had even more problems than hotdeployment? We removed it at one point and then we had to add it back because customers liked it no matter how many problems it had. Going back to the issue, I think we need to have in mind 2 categories of users. A) The developer, the occasional user or someone who's just playing with JBoss and/or was familiar with the old JBoss. For them, drag&drop should work out of the box. Those guys shouldn't have to *create* a file marker. Maybe they could touch the .deployed marker to cause a redeployment (for both packed/unpacked deployments), or remove it to trigger an undeployment, but in no case they must have to create a marker file themselves. Older IDEs just copying files around should work too (with the exception of those that touch nested descriptors to cause a redeploy). (Oh, yes, and don't forget that 75% of our users use Windoze :) ) B) The serious developer or admin/script writer. Those guys need safety and either through the IDE that understands about marker files or through scripting, they want the safest deployment method possible. They'll use every marker file trick available. Those requirements lead to a mixed solution. One that let's you use the usual drag&drop behaviour to deploy/undeploy stuff BUT also let's you use the marker files to enhance the experience. In the case of an unpacked deployment, using the marker file for redeployment/undeployment looks like the best alternative, anyway. I tried to put the workflows in paper and it looks complex to implement, but I prefer the complexity to fall in our hands than to our users who will download AS7 and fail trying to do a simple deployment. Sorry for the long post, I hope that clarfied a bit my position on this thread. -------------------------------------------------------------- Reply to this message by going to Community [http://community.jboss.org/message/593704#593704] Start a new discussion in JBoss AS7 Development at Community [http://community.jboss.org/choose-container!input.jspa?contentType=1&...]

Max Rydahl Andersen [http://community.jboss.org/people/maxandersen] created the discussion "Re: Thoughts on filesystem action driven hot deployment" To view the discussion, visit: http://community.jboss.org/message/594521#594521 -------------------------------------------------------------- Last time I tried tomcat it supported both zipped and exploded hot deployment - and Glassfish likewise. What competition do you refer to ? :) -------------------------------------------------------------- Reply to this message by going to Community [http://community.jboss.org/message/594521#594521] Start a new discussion in JBoss AS7 Development at Community [http://community.jboss.org/choose-container!input.jspa?contentType=1&...]

jaikiran pai [http://community.jboss.org/people/jaikiran] created the discussion "Re: Thoughts on filesystem action driven hot deployment" To view the discussion, visit: http://community.jboss.org/message/593478#593478 -------------------------------------------------------------- I liked this idea. So here's my initial version of a variant of the current FileSystemDeploymentService https://github.com/jaikiran/jboss-as/commit/7a8c0d4261842cc45eba312b47f1b... https://github.com/jaikiran/jboss-as/commit/7a8c0d4261842cc45eba312b47f1b... To summarize, this new OptOutFileSystemDeploymentService allows users to selectively disable processing of deployments (the exact opposite of the current approach). I'm pasting the javadoc here for more clarity: /** * A {@link org.jboss.as.server.deployment.scanner.api.DeploymentScanner} which allows skipping of deployments present in * a directory. * <p/> * The presence of a <fileName>.skip marker file indicates that the deployment named <fileName> has to be skipped * during the deployment process. This is useful when a (usually large) deployment file is being copied to the deploy folder. * To prevent the deployment scanner from picking up the (incomplete) deployment, the user is expected to <i>first</i> place a * <fileName>.skip marker file in the deploy folder and <i>then</i> start copying the actual deployment file. Once the actual * deployment file is completely copied, the user should then delete the <fileName>.skip marker file so that the deployment * scanner pick up the deployment for processing, during its next scheduled interval. * <p/> * The contents of the .skip marker file does <i>not</i> matter and it can even be an empty file. * <p/> * Note that this {@link OptOutFileSystemDeploymentService} is different from the {@link FileSystemDeploymentService} only * in the way, the deployment is triggered. In case of {@link FileSystemDeploymentService} the <i>presence</i> of a marker file * triggers a deployment (i.e. requires an additional action from the user even for small simple deployments or even when the * hot deployment is disabled). On the other hand, this {@link OptOutFileSystemDeploymentService} relies on the <i>absence</i> * of a marker file to trigger the deployment processing. * * @author Jaikiran Pai */ public class OptOutFileSystemDeploymentService extends FileSystemDeploymentService { The main advantage of this scanner is that it allows users to just place their deployments in the deployment folder (either when the server is down or when the server is running) and not worry about any additional marker files. This I guess will cover many of our users. Then for those users who have to disable the hot deployment processing for large deployments, then will first create a *.skip file, then copy over the deployment and once its completely copied, remove the *.skip file. Note that this new scanner continues to create/delete the rest of the *internal* marker files which Brian already explained. The end users don't really have to worry/care about those, so I did not change any of that behaviour. The only difference in these 2 scanners is related to the trigger that leads to the deployment processing. I have built and tested this locally for standalone deployments. Worked fine for me. But if anyone else wants to test it out and see how it goes, that would be great. And ofcourse, since this is just the initial version, feel free to express any suitable changes that might be needed. Currently I did not find (or rather did not dig deep enough to find) a way to configure either of these 2 scanners outside of the code, so it's been enabled by default. Is it worth making it the default scanner in our next release? -------------------------------------------------------------- Reply to this message by going to Community [http://community.jboss.org/message/593478#593478] Start a new discussion in JBoss AS7 Development at Community [http://community.jboss.org/choose-container!input.jspa?contentType=1&...]