hmm.... post got cut off... here is the rest: ... Which is down right incorrect. The difference in the required java code is one line, so at least the statement should have been the same. Just as with the milestone as I demonstrated in my blog. Second thing is that they evaluated 3.1.4 and we are already on 3.2.3, so the evaluation is even old in that regard. I dare to say that from the control-flow patterns, almost all (and certainly the most used ones) can be easily implemented. And I (as does Tom I'm sure of that) never said or never had the intention that jPDL should not be extended with out of the box support, with real language constructs so without jBPM providing e.g. delegation classes. In fact, jBPM4 is a great moment to supprt more language constructs, certainly with the addition of you and Thomas to the team (remember, for me it just a hobby!!!) Besides that, they also evaluated the standards and not even those support all of the patterns... Nice BPMN related article in this regard is from Michael zur Muehlen on "how much BPMN do you need" [7]. If you take the 80/20 rule into account, I think jBPM did great, almost perfect, not with support of BPMN but the tradeoff for the 'patterns' To make a long story short... it`s all in all not that bad maybe marketing wise, but we can work on that Ok, now lets switch to BPMN. Up until a year ago, BPMN was not hot (not sure it is now, maybe it skipped the hype state and is going 'mainstream'). Some real business designers supported it. Besides that, there was no executable language so some other suppliers had converters, most one-way, some (limited) round-trip. jBPM focussed (focusses) not only on the business designers but also at the people implementing the process (a joint-effort). BPMN was just to much overhead with the limited resources. Ok, the graphical representation could (should?) have been used for those parts that are supported in JPDL, but that should have been it. The eclipse STP-BPMN desiger which is now becomming available might be interesting. Initially with an export function (although that should yield something really usable in the GPD) and maybe they can grow together and JBoss delivers an STP-BPMN-JPDL designer. Heck maybe even JPDL and XPDL grow closer [3] http://www.workflowpatterns.com/patterns/control/multiple_instance/wcp13.php [4] http://www.workflowpatterns.com/patterns/control/multiple_instance/wcp14.php [5] http://www.workflowpatterns.com/evaluations/index.php [6] http://www.workflowpatterns.com/evaluations/opensource/jBPM.php [7] http://www.bpm-research.com/2008/03/03/how-much-bpmn-do-you-need/ Shoot... I should have made this into a blog entry.... maybe I still will. View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4181071#... Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&a...