Re: [seam-dev] Re: Adding a security audit to the Seam QA (release) process

On 22 Oct 2008, at 12:05, Anil Saldhana wrote: > Shane Bryzak wrote: >> Rodney Russ wrote: >>> Pete Muir wrote: >>>> Marc, Christian, Jay and I met and discussed this. Here is the >>>> outcome: >>>> >>>> 1) Create a wiki page and list out the "top ten" web security >>>> problems. This page should list not actual exploits, but the >>>> underlying problems (for example XSS and XSRF). This page will >>>> also link to good resources describing the problem, and common >>>> solutions. Christian and Marc will collaborate to build this page. >>> Any reason why we wouldn't look to existing lists for the top web >>> application exploits in the "wild"? For example: >>> >>> * The OWASP top ten: http://www.owasp.org/index.php/Top_10_2007 >>> * The Web Application Security Consortium's Threat Classification: >>> http://www.webappsec.org/projects/threat/ Agreed, I hope this is part of the research that Marc and Christian will do :-)

>>> >> >> I took a look at both of these, I especially liked the second one >> (WASC) as they provide a PDF document containing details of known >> attack types broken down by class (authentication, authorization, >> client-side, command-execution, information disclosure, and logical >> attacks). I would ultimately like to see a table detailing how Seam >> addresses each of these vulnerabilities, and I think an additional >> chapter in the docs as Pete suggested would be the best place for >> this (item 4 in the task list). The great thing about the WASC >> document was that it gave clear examples of how each of the exploits >> worked - I think we need to work the same kind of explanations into >> the documentation also. For example, rather than just say 'this is >> how Seam is secure against session fixation attacks' we actually >> explain what a session fixation attack is. Or if we can get a permalink to a good resource.... BTW Dan is going to coordinate (2) and (4) >> > Both OWASP and webappsec are the results of Jeremiah Grossman, CEO of > Whitehat Security. So they will have the same contents. You can > combine them to get the list. :) > > I agree with Shane that we need to explain the vulnerabilities in > addition to listing them. >>>> >>>> 2) Create a second wiki page to discuss how these problems affect >>>> the various points at which Seam is exposed (e.g. JSF, Wicket, >>>> remoting), the resources collected for (1) can be used to identify >>>> and help close any holes. Currently there is no-one leading this >>>> effort. >>>> >>>> 3) At release time QA will run through the list from (1) and >>>> identify if there are any new features added to Seam which could >>>> be affected. If there are, and the developer has not documented >>>> them on (2), QA will discuss the problem with the developer. >>>> Jay/QA to lead. >>>> >>>> 4) Building out a "Securing your application" chapter and tools >>>> which Seam users can follow to secure their application built >>>> using Seam. An example of this is provide a tool which can >>>> generate a unique token to prevent XSRF attacks. Currently there >>>> is no one leading this, but the same person as (2) should own it IMO. >>>> >>>> If someone would like to volunteer for (2) & (4) who has an >>>> interest in security, that would be great :-) >>>> >>>> We also discussed the process for dealing with found exploits: >>>> >>>> 1) We already tell people to email security(a)jboss.org with any >>>> suspected problems. >>>> >>>> 2) We need to publish the response policy, probably on jboss.org. >>>> Christian will talk to Anil about publishing this, and the jboss >>>> advisory list info. >>>> >>>> 3) It is at the discretion of the JBoss Security Response Team to >>>> decide whether to embargo an issue, and discuss just with a >>>> developer, and not make it public until there is a release or >>>> whether the issue is more general and should be discussed on >>>> seam-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >>>> >>>> >>>> On 6 Oct 2008, at 11:55, Pete Muir wrote: >>>> >>>>> Marc, >>>>> >>>>> Sounds great. I'm in the UK, so GMT+1 atm. Christian, will you >>>>> join us to discuss? >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> On 6 Oct 2008, at 11:13, Marc Schoenefeld wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Pete, >>>>>> >>>>>> that sounds like a good plan, let's schedule some initial >>>>>> planning for >>>>>> next week, because this week I am quite busy with after-PTO >>>>>> workload >>>>>> and SOA testing. How about next tuesday? BTW, which timezone are >>>>>> you >>>>>> in, maybe we can start with a phone chat? >>>>>> >>>>>> The first things that come into my mind are JSF view state >>>>>> injection, >>>>>> XSS in all different kinds, remoting misuse, insecure servlet >>>>>> mappings. >>>>>> During this week I will catch with the current Seam codebase by >>>>>> findbugs-ing through it, and maybe already stumble over the one or >>>>>> other place to start poking into. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> Marc >>>>>> >>>>>> Pete Muir wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Marc, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Something that we've been discussing is the idea creating a >>>>>>> security >>>>>>> audit checklist that will cover Seam and the ways it interacts >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> the outside world; initially, we want to focus on JSF, Seam >>>>>>> Remoting >>>>>>> (Ajax) and Servlet but we will also consider adding in WS >>>>>>> including >>>>>>> JAX-RS, Wicket, GWT and perhaps others, though these are what I >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> think off. This checklist would then be added to the Seam QA >>>>>>> process >>>>>>> (which is run through at release time). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We were wondering if you would be able to work with us on this? My >>>>>>> suggestion is, that as you (I hope ;-) have a good >>>>>>> understanding of >>>>>>> the general approaches that could be used to exploit a Seam >>>>>>> that you >>>>>>> would be to work with us both on an initial list of areas to >>>>>>> focus on, >>>>>>> and then help us develop the checklist. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Let us know :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pete >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Marc Schoenefeld / Red Hat Security Response Team >>>>>> >