Just FYI, but who knows ;-) Our proprietary vintage RBS has a feature is (admittedly) rarely used but could come in handy, every now and then. Given this class class Element { int rank; // rank > 0 } and to fire a rule in ascending rank order, you can write (using modified Drools syntax) rule "fire in rank order 1,2,..." when Element( $rank : rank,... ) // ... salience -$rank ### <= then // ... end The dynamically set salience does all the work. (Of course, you can achieve the same order in Drools easily enough.) This is possible since salience is a value that must be carried over into the activation. There is at least one other rule attribute that shares this property, but I'm not sure whether anything useful can be done with dynamic agenda groups. Cheers -W _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev

I am surprised, all the more so because (cf. Expert): "Each rule has a salience attribute that can be assigned an integer * number*," This does not event remotely indicate that you can use an *expression*involving bound variables. If it isn't documented, nobody will use it. Being in front of the when part where the bindings occur, it is counter-intuitive to other bound variable references, and so I didn't even try. However: good to know, and thanks! -W On 26 August 2010 15:21, Edson Tirelli <tirelli(a)post.com&gt; wrote: > Wolfgang, > Not sure I understand what you mean, but Drools supports dynamic > salience: > rule "fire in rank order 1,2,..." > salience( -$rank ) > when > Element( $rank : rank,... ) > ... > then > ... > end > Edson > > 2010/8/26 Wolfgang Laun <wolfgang.laun(a)gmail.com&gt; >> >> Just FYI, but who knows ;-) >> >> Our proprietary vintage RBS has a feature is (admittedly) rarely used >> but could come in handy, every now and then. >> >> Given this class >> >> class Element { >> int rank; // rank > 0 >> } >> >> and to fire a rule in ascending rank order, you can write (using >> modified Drools syntax) >> >> rule "fire in rank order 1,2,..." >> when >> Element( $rank : rank,... ) >> // ... >> salience -$rank ### <= >> then >> // ... >> end >> >> The dynamically set salience does all the work. (Of course, you can >> achieve the same order >> in Drools easily enough.) >> >> This is possible since salience is a value that must be carried over >> into the activation. >> There is at least one other rule attribute that shares this property, >> but I'm not sure >> whether anything useful can be done with dynamic agenda groups. >> >> Cheers >> -W >> _______________________________________________ >> rules-dev mailing list >> rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev > > > > -- > Edson Tirelli > JBoss Drools Core Development > JBoss by Red Hat @ www.jboss.com > > _______________________________________________ > rules-dev mailing list > rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev > > _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev

I totally agree with Wolfgang here. On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 11:21, Wolfgang Laun <wolfgang.laun(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: I am surprised, all the more so because (cf. Expert): "Each rule has a salience attribute that can be assigned an integer number," This does not event remotely indicate that you can use an expression involving bound variables. If it isn't documented, nobody will use it. Being in front of the when part where the bindings occur, it is counter-intuitive to other bound variable references, and so I didn't even try. However: good to know, and thanks! -W On 26 August 2010 15:21, Edson Tirelli <tirelli(a)post.com&gt; wrote: > Wolfgang, > Not sure I understand what you mean, but Drools supports dynamic > salience: > rule "fire in rank order 1,2,..." > salience( -$rank ) > when > Element( $rank : rank,... ) > ... > then > ... > end > Edson > > 2010/8/26 Wolfgang Laun <wolfgang.laun(a)gmail.com&gt; >> >> Just FYI, but who knows ;-) >> >> Our proprietary vintage RBS has a feature is (admittedly) rarely used >> but could come in handy, every now and then. >> >> Given this class >> >> class Element { >> int rank; // rank > 0 >> } >> >> and to fire a rule in ascending rank order, you can write (using >> modified Drools syntax) >> >> rule "fire in rank order 1,2,..." >> when >> Element( $rank : rank,... ) >> // ... >> salience -$rank ### <= >> then >> // ... >> end >> >> The dynamically set salience does all the work. (Of course, you can >> achieve the same order >> in Drools easily enough.) >> >> This is possible since salience is a value that must be carried over >> into the activation. >> There is at least one other rule attribute that shares this property, >> but I'm not sure >> whether anything useful can be done with dynamic agenda groups. >> >> Cheers >> -W >> _______________________________________________ >> rules-dev mailing list >> rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev > > > > -- > Edson Tirelli > JBoss Drools Core Development > JBoss by Red Hat @ www.jboss.com > > _______________________________________________ > rules-dev mailing list > rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev > > _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev -- Abraços Raphael Duarte Paiva Graduando em Ciência da Computação "For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination. We learned to talk [...]" - Stephen Hawking, 1993 _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev

On 26/08/2010 17:51, Raphael Duarte Paiva wrote: > I totally agree with Wolfgang here. > > On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 11:21, Wolfgang Laun <wolfgang.laun(a)gmail.com > <mailto:wolfgang.laun@gmail.com>> wrote: > > I am surprised, all the more so because (cf. Expert): > > "Each rule has a salience attribute that can be assigned an > integer /*number*/," > > This does not event remotely indicate that you can use an > /*expression*/ involving bound variables. > > If it isn't documented, nobody will use it. Being in front of the > when part where the bindings occur, it is counter-intuitive to > other bound variable references, and so I didn't even try. > > However: good to know, and thanks! > I'll give write permission to docs to anyone that wants to assist :) Wolfgang you already have write permissions I believe? :) I would recommend xmlmind as the authoring tool. http://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/ Mark > > > -W > > > > On 26 August 2010 15:21, Edson Tirelli <tirelli(a)post.com > <mailto:tirelli@post.com>> wrote: > > Wolfgang, > > Not sure I understand what you mean, but Drools supports > dynamic > > salience: > > rule "fire in rank order 1,2,..." > > salience( -$rank ) > > when > > Element( $rank : rank,... ) > > ... > > then > > ... > > end > > Edson > > > > 2010/8/26 Wolfgang Laun <wolfgang.laun(a)gmail.com > <mailto:wolfgang.laun@gmail.com>> > >> > >> Just FYI, but who knows ;-) > >> > >> Our proprietary vintage RBS has a feature is (admittedly) > rarely used > >> but could come in handy, every now and then. > >> > >> Given this class > >> > >> class Element { > >> int rank; // rank > 0 > >> } > >> > >> and to fire a rule in ascending rank order, you can write (using > >> modified Drools syntax) > >> > >> rule "fire in rank order 1,2,..." > >> when > >> Element( $rank : rank,... ) > >> // ... > >> salience -$rank ### <= > >> then > >> // ... > >> end > >> > >> The dynamically set salience does all the work. (Of course, > you can > >> achieve the same order > >> in Drools easily enough.) > >> > >> This is possible since salience is a value that must be > carried over > >> into the activation. > >> There is at least one other rule attribute that shares this > property, > >> but I'm not sure > >> whether anything useful can be done with dynamic agenda groups. > >> > >> Cheers > >> -W > >> _______________________________________________ > >> rules-dev mailing list > >> rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-dev@lists.jboss.org> > >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev > > > > > > > > -- > > Edson Tirelli > > JBoss Drools Core Development > > JBoss by Red Hat @ www.jboss.com <http://www.jboss.com> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > rules-dev mailing list > > rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-dev@lists.jboss.org> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > rules-dev mailing list > rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-dev@lists.jboss.org> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev > > > > > -- > Abraços > Raphael Duarte Paiva > Graduando em Ciência da Computação > > "For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then > something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination. We > learned to talk [...]" - Stephen Hawking, 1993 > > > _______________________________________________ > rules-dev mailing list > rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev

Hahaha - yes - that is what I was thinking. Dyanmic salience was added some time back - but its one of those "did it and forgot about it" things. Also - historically salience has been "abused" more than "used" - so perhaps there is less excitement to talk about what you can do with it. But the case wolfgang mentioned is a good one - if you know you need it you can probably safely use it.

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 11:21 PM, Edson Tirelli <tirelli(a)post.com <mailto:tirelli@post.com>> wrote: Wolfgang, Not sure I understand what you mean, but Drools supports dynamic salience: rule "fire in rank order 1,2,..." salience( -$rank ) when Element( $rank : rank,... ) ... then ... end Edson 2010/8/26 Wolfgang Laun <wolfgang.laun(a)gmail.com <mailto:wolfgang.laun@gmail.com>> Just FYI, but who knows ;-) Our proprietary vintage RBS has a feature is (admittedly) rarely used but could come in handy, every now and then. Given this class class Element { int rank; // rank > 0 } and to fire a rule in ascending rank order, you can write (using modified Drools syntax) rule "fire in rank order 1,2,..." when Element( $rank : rank,... ) // ... salience -$rank ### <= then // ... end The dynamically set salience does all the work. (Of course, you can achieve the same order in Drools easily enough.) This is possible since salience is a value that must be carried over into the activation. There is at least one other rule attribute that shares this property, but I'm not sure whether anything useful can be done with dynamic agenda groups. Cheers -W _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-dev@lists.jboss.org> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev -- Edson Tirelli JBoss Drools Core Development JBoss by Red Hat @ www.jboss.com <http://www.jboss.com> _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-dev@lists.jboss.org> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev -- Michael D Neale home: www.michaelneale.net <http://www.michaelneale.net> blog: michaelneale.blogspot.com <http://michaelneale.blogspot.com> _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev

I *would* have added something on dynamic salience when I went over the Expert manual, in 2008 (?) - if I'd only known it. Blogging is fine - but it just isn't Documentation, with a capital 'D'. This is also a nice case in point why I'm reluctant to invest work in maintaining Drools documentation: From where the heck would I get to know what's missing or obsolete or wrong? In some areas, I have gathered sufficient experience, but there are vast areas where I'm anything between spottily witted to downright ignorant. Also, there's some furious hacking going on all the time (I presume), and how would one rein that it to get to know what's happening?

Anyway, right now I'm collecting a loose set of How-tos, as a by-product of current work, and for areas where I deem it useful. See http://members.inode.at/w.laun/ and scroll down to "Rule Based Programming" / "Drools" / "Selected Topics". -W On 27 August 2010 02:21, Mark Proctor <mproctor(a)codehaus.org <mailto:mproctor@codehaus.org>> wrote: On 27/08/2010 00:05, Michael Neale wrote: > Hahaha - yes - that is what I was thinking. > > Dyanmic salience was added some time back - but its one of those > "did it and forgot about it" things. > Also - historically salience has been "abused" more than "used" - > so perhaps there is less excitement to talk about what you can do > with it. > > But the case wolfgang mentioned is a good one - if you know you > need it you can probably safely use it. http://blog.athico.com/2007/05/dynamic-salience-expressions.html > > On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 11:21 PM, Edson Tirelli <tirelli(a)post.com > <mailto:tirelli@post.com>> wrote: > > Wolfgang, > > Not sure I understand what you mean, but Drools supports > dynamic salience: > > rule "fire in rank order 1,2,..." > salience( -$rank ) > when > Element( $rank : rank,... ) > ... > then > ... > end > > Edson > > > 2010/8/26 Wolfgang Laun <wolfgang.laun(a)gmail.com > <mailto:wolfgang.laun@gmail.com>> > > Just FYI, but who knows ;-) > > Our proprietary vintage RBS has a feature is (admittedly) > rarely used > but could come in handy, every now and then. > > Given this class > > class Element { > int rank; // rank > 0 > } > > and to fire a rule in ascending rank order, you can write > (using > modified Drools syntax) > > rule "fire in rank order 1,2,..." > when > Element( $rank : rank,... ) > // ... > salience -$rank ### <= > then > // ... > end > > The dynamically set salience does all the work. (Of > course, you can > achieve the same order > in Drools easily enough.) > > This is possible since salience is a value that must be > carried over > into the activation. > There is at least one other rule attribute that shares > this property, > but I'm not sure > whether anything useful can be done with dynamic agenda > groups. > > Cheers > -W > _______________________________________________ > rules-dev mailing list > rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-dev@lists.jboss.org> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev > > > > > -- > Edson Tirelli > JBoss Drools Core Development > JBoss by Red Hat @ www.jboss.com <http://www.jboss.com> > > _______________________________________________ > rules-dev mailing list > rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-dev@lists.jboss.org> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev > > > > > -- > Michael D Neale > home: www.michaelneale.net <http://www.michaelneale.net> > blog: michaelneale.blogspot.com <http://michaelneale.blogspot.com> > > > _______________________________________________ > rules-dev mailing list > rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-dev@lists.jboss.org> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-dev@lists.jboss.org> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev