10:39 a.m.
Samson,
You've previously raised the issue of how we allow the JBoss Content
Team to work on translation/documentation and requested that we freeze
the documentation approximately 2 weeks before we release.
Having thought about this some, we don't think that this is really
practical. So here is our alternative proposal:
1) We release Seam X.Y.Z.GA with the English docs as prepared by Seam
committers. This allows users quick access to the code and also to
updated docs
2) We freeze this branch for around 2 - 3 weeks except for any
critical code fixes and documentation/translation work
3) We then release Seam X.Y.Z.SP1 with any critical fixes and translations
Jay,
This obviously increases the QA/release managers load so I propose
that only extremely critical fixes make it into the code, examples or
seam-gen. As the release testing and process is increasingly automated
this should become easier. What do you think?
Pete
--
Pete Muir
http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Pete
http://www.seamframework.org
11:50 a.m.
Pete,
We followed a similar process at my last company. We found that freezing
anything right before a release was not practical.
We would release the product with included English docs. Where it differs
from your plan is that we did not do a follow up release - unless needed for
critical bugs. The docs team worked off the tagged rev so that they were
always translating the same version as the release. The dev branch was
never actually frozen. When the docs were finished we posted the translated
documentation on our website. In the original release we had links and
information discussing the translated docs and where they could be found.
Both approaches have there benefits, but I would suggest we do something
like this because I think that it will free more time for other tasks.
Obviously I could go either way though.
Jay
On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 5:39 AM, Pete Muir <pmuir(a)bleepbleep.org.uk> wrote:
Samson,
You've previously raised the issue of how we allow the JBoss Content
Team to work on translation/documentation and requested that we freeze
the documentation approximately 2 weeks before we release.
Having thought about this some, we don't think that this is really
practical. So here is our alternative proposal:
1) We release Seam X.Y.Z.GA with the English docs as prepared by Seam
committers. This allows users quick access to the code and also to
updated docs
2) We freeze this branch for around 2 - 3 weeks except for any
critical code fixes and documentation/translation work
3) We then release Seam X.Y.Z.SP1 with any critical fixes and translations
Jay,
This obviously increases the QA/release managers load so I propose
that only extremely critical fixes make it into the code, examples or
seam-gen. As the release testing and process is increasingly automated
this should become easier. What do you think?
Pete
--
Pete Muir
http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Pete
http://www.seamframework.org
_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev
11:59 a.m.
On 27 Mar 2008, at 10:50, Jay Balunas wrote:
We followed a similar process at my last company. We found that
freezing anything right before a release was not practical.
Yup, I think you are right. Especially for patch releases as we do
most of the work in the run up to release.
We would release the product with included English docs. Where it
differs from your plan is that we did not do a follow up release -
unless needed for critical bugs. The docs team worked off the
tagged rev so that they were always translating the same version as
the release.
So, did the translated docs get committed into an RCS at all? This is
what Shane and I were struggling with - the tag needs to reflect what
was released, so you need somewhere to place the translation. We want
to avoid putting in a branch for each release.
The dev branch was never actually frozen. When the docs were
finished we posted the translated documentation on our website. In
the original release we had links and information discussing the
translated docs and where they could be found.
This is other option. It has the downsides that you never get a zip
with the translated docs so some won't realise they exist and the
above RCS problem. On the upside it is easier.
Another option we discussed would be get just the doc/ dir tagged
with with the translations post release (e.g.
JBoss_Seam_2_0_2_GA_TR1) and release a separate zip including
translated docs. This would reduce the QA/release load no end, solve
the RCS problem and possibly be good as it means those who just want
code don't get bloat from all sorts of extra docs. This could also be
good as it would allow the docs team to work mostly independently
after a release and provide translations as fast as they need (just
tag each rev TRx, upload to sf.net, update docs.jboss.org and update
seamframework.org).
WDYT?
Both approaches have there benefits, but I would suggest we do
something like this because I think that it will free more time for
other tasks.
Obviously I could go either way though.
Jay
On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 5:39 AM, Pete Muir
<pmuir(a)bleepbleep.org.uk> wrote:
Samson,
You've previously raised the issue of how we allow the JBoss Content
Team to work on translation/documentation and requested that we freeze
the documentation approximately 2 weeks before we release.
Having thought about this some, we don't think that this is really
practical. So here is our alternative proposal:
1) We release Seam X.Y.Z.GA with the English docs as prepared by Seam
committers. This allows users quick access to the code and also to
updated docs
2) We freeze this branch for around 2 - 3 weeks except for any
critical code fixes and documentation/translation work
3) We then release Seam X.Y.Z.SP1 with any critical fixes and
translations
Jay,
This obviously increases the QA/release managers load so I propose
that only extremely critical fixes make it into the code, examples or
seam-gen. As the release testing and process is increasingly automated
this should become easier. What do you think?
Pete
--
Pete Muir
http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Pete
http://www.seamframework.org
_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev
12:02 p.m.
On 27 Mar 2008, at 10:59, Pete Muir wrote:
On 27 Mar 2008, at 10:50, Jay Balunas wrote:
> We followed a similar process at my last company. We found that
> freezing anything right before a release was not practical.
Yup, I think you are right. Especially for patch releases as we do
most of the work in the run up to release.
> We would release the product with included English docs. Where it
> differs from your plan is that we did not do a follow up release -
> unless needed for critical bugs. The docs team worked off the
> tagged rev so that they were always translating the same version
> as the release.
So, did the translated docs get committed into an RCS at all? This
is what Shane and I were struggling with - the tag needs to reflect
what was released, so you need somewhere to place the translation.
We want to avoid putting in a branch for each release.
> The dev branch was never actually frozen. When the docs were
> finished we posted the translated documentation on our website.
> In the original release we had links and information discussing
> the translated docs and where they could be found.
This is other option. It has the downsides that you never get a zip
with the translated docs so some won't realise they exist and the
above RCS problem. On the upside it is easier.
Another option we discussed would be get just the doc/ dir tagged
with with the translations post release (e.g.
JBoss_Seam_2_0_2_GA_TR1) and release a separate zip including
translated docs.
This zip would *just* contain the docs, not the src/, not the built
jars, not the examples and be called e.g. jboss-seam-2.0.2.GA-
documentation.zip
This would reduce the QA/release load no end, solve the RCS problem
and possibly be good as it means those who just want code don't get
bloat from all sorts of extra docs. This could also be good as it
would allow the docs team to work mostly independently after a
release and provide translations as fast as they need (just tag
each rev TRx, upload to sf.net, update docs.jboss.org and update
seamframework.org).
WDYT?
>
>
> Both approaches have there benefits, but I would suggest we do
> something like this because I think that it will free more time
> for other tasks.
>
> Obviously I could go either way though.
>
> Jay
>
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 5:39 AM, Pete Muir
> <pmuir(a)bleepbleep.org.uk> wrote:
> Samson,
>
> You've previously raised the issue of how we allow the JBoss Content
> Team to work on translation/documentation and requested that we
> freeze
> the documentation approximately 2 weeks before we release.
>
> Having thought about this some, we don't think that this is really
> practical. So here is our alternative proposal:
>
> 1) We release Seam X.Y.Z.GA with the English docs as prepared by Seam
> committers. This allows users quick access to the code and also to
> updated docs
>
> 2) We freeze this branch for around 2 - 3 weeks except for any
> critical code fixes and documentation/translation work
>
> 3) We then release Seam X.Y.Z.SP1 with any critical fixes and
> translations
>
> Jay,
>
> This obviously increases the QA/release managers load so I propose
> that only extremely critical fixes make it into the code, examples or
> seam-gen. As the release testing and process is increasingly
> automated
> this should become easier. What do you think?
>
> Pete
>
> --
> Pete Muir
> http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Pete
> http://www.seamframework.org
> _______________________________________________
> seam-dev mailing list
> seam-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev
>
_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev
--
Pete Muir
http://www.seamframework.org
http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Pete
2:16 p.m.
On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 7:02 AM, Pete Muir <pete.muir(a)jboss.org> wrote:
On 27 Mar 2008, at 10:59, Pete Muir wrote:
> On 27 Mar 2008, at 10:50, Jay Balunas wrote:
>> We followed a similar process at my last company. We found that
>> freezing anything right before a release was not practical.
>
> Yup, I think you are right. Especially for patch releases as we do
> most of the work in the run up to release.
>
>> We would release the product with included English docs. Where it
>> differs from your plan is that we did not do a follow up release -
>> unless needed for critical bugs. The docs team worked off the
>> tagged rev so that they were always translating the same version
>> as the release.
>
> So, did the translated docs get committed into an RCS at all? This
> is what Shane and I were struggling with - the tag needs to reflect
> what was released, so you need somewhere to place the translation.
> We want to avoid putting in a branch for each release.
I was not deeply involved with the docs so I am not 100% certain, but I
believe that the were "labeled" - similar to "tagged" in clearcase :(
post
release with the same label as the release. This way future packaging
contained the translation. This does not seem like the best approach
though.
>
>> The dev branch was never actually frozen. When the docs were
>> finished we posted the translated documentation on our website.
>> In the original release we had links and information discussing
>> the translated docs and where they could be found.
>
> This is other option. It has the downsides that you never get a zip
> with the translated docs so some won't realise they exist and the
> above RCS problem. On the upside it is easier.
>
> Another option we discussed would be get just the doc/ dir tagged
> with with the translations post release (e.g.
> JBoss_Seam_2_0_2_GA_TR1) and release a separate zip including
> translated docs.
I like this tagging approach - because moving forward there are also going
to be multiple translations and they probably will not all be finished at
the same time. As new ones are completed they can be released.
This zip would *just* contain the docs, not the src/, not the built
jars, not the examples and be called e.g. jboss-seam-2.0.2.GA-
documentation.zip
This is how a lot of packages do it (like the sun JDK) they have a document
zip/release .
> This would reduce the QA/release load no end, solve the RCS problem
> and possibly be good as it means those who just want code don't get
> bloat from all sorts of extra docs. This could also be good as it
> would allow the docs team to work mostly independently after a
> release and provide translations as fast as they need (just tag
> each rev TRx, upload to sf.net, update docs.jboss.org and update
> seamframework.org).
>
> WDYT?
I think it sounds good as long as these releases are only the docs. They
would be a zip that you could extract into the release and it would just lay
down the update.
>
>
>>
>>
>> Both approaches have there benefits, but I would suggest we do
>> something like this because I think that it will free more time
>> for other tasks.
>>
>> Obviously I could go either way though.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 5:39 AM, Pete Muir
>> <pmuir(a)bleepbleep.org.uk> wrote:
>> Samson,
>>
>> You've previously raised the issue of how we allow the JBoss Content
>> Team to work on translation/documentation and requested that we
>> freeze
>> the documentation approximately 2 weeks before we release.
>>
>> Having thought about this some, we don't think that this is really
>> practical. So here is our alternative proposal:
>>
>> 1) We release Seam X.Y.Z.GA with the English docs as prepared by Seam
>> committers. This allows users quick access to the code and also to
>> updated docs
>>
>> 2) We freeze this branch for around 2 - 3 weeks except for any
>> critical code fixes and documentation/translation work
>>
>> 3) We then release Seam X.Y.Z.SP1 with any critical fixes and
>> translations
>>
>> Jay,
>>
>> This obviously increases the QA/release managers load so I propose
>> that only extremely critical fixes make it into the code, examples or
>> seam-gen. As the release testing and process is increasingly
>> automated
>> this should become easier. What do you think?
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> --
>> Pete Muir
>> http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Pete
>> http://www.seamframework.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> seam-dev mailing list
>> seam-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> seam-dev mailing list
> seam-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev
--
Pete Muir
http://www.seamframework.org
http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Pete
2:21 p.m.
On 27/03/2008, Jay Balunas <tech4j(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > So, did the translated docs get committed into an RCS at
all? This
> > is what Shane and I were struggling with - the tag needs to reflect
> > what was released, so you need somewhere to place the translation.
> > We want to avoid putting in a branch for each release.
I was not deeply involved with the docs so I am not 100% certain, but I
believe that the were "labeled" - similar to "tagged" in clearcase :(
post
release with the same label as the release. This way future packaging
contained the translation. This does not seem like the best approach
though.
Yeah, I'm -1 on overlaying the tag
> > Another option we discussed would be get just the doc/ dir
tagged
> > with with the translations post release (e.g.
> > JBoss_Seam_2_0_2_GA_TR1) and release a separate zip including
> > translated docs.
I like this tagging approach - because moving forward there are also going
to be multiple translations and they probably will not all be finished at
the same time. As new ones are completed they can be released.
The other question is, do we do an overlayed main zip and upload to
sourceforge or not as we go.
Or do we split the docs out completely from the dist, then just
overlay the docs zip and replace it.
--
Pete Muir
http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/Pete
http://www.seamframework.org
2:35 p.m.
New subject: Updates to Seam release process to allow for translation work
Pete Muir wrote:
On 27/03/2008, Jay Balunas <tech4j(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>> So, did the translated docs get committed into an RCS at all? This
>>> is what Shane and I were struggling with - the tag needs to reflect
>>> what was released, so you need somewhere to place the translation.
>>> We want to avoid putting in a branch for each release.
>>>
> I was not deeply involved with the docs so I am not 100% certain, but I
> believe that the were "labeled" - similar to "tagged" in
clearcase :( post
> release with the same label as the release. This way future packaging
> contained the translation. This does not seem like the best approach
> though.
>
Yeah, I'm -1 on overlaying the tag
+1 on your -1
>>> Another option we discussed would be get just the doc/ dir tagged
>>> with with the translations post release (e.g.
>>> JBoss_Seam_2_0_2_GA_TR1) and release a separate zip including
>>> translated docs.
>>>
> I like this tagging approach - because moving forward there are also going
> to be multiple translations and they probably will not all be finished at
> the same time. As new ones are completed they can be released.
>
The other question is, do we do an overlayed main zip and upload to
sourceforge or not as we go.
Or do we split the docs out completely from the dist, then just
overlay the docs zip and replace it.
I kind of like having the english docs be combined (80/20 rule). I just
did a quick check on 2.0.1.GA and the docs are 38M (unzipped) but only
4.2M zipped.
Not sure which is the best way here.
4:39 p.m.
New subject: Updates to Seam release process to allow for translation work
Ok, lets keep the english docs included, and then provide
documentation updates as needed. Anything else is too complex I think.
On 27 Mar 2008, at 13:35, Jay Balunas wrote:
Pete Muir wrote:
> On 27/03/2008, Jay Balunas <tech4j(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>> So, did the translated docs get committed into an RCS at all? This
>>>> is what Shane and I were struggling with - the tag needs to
>>>> reflect
>>>> what was released, so you need somewhere to place the translation.
>>>> We want to avoid putting in a branch for each release.
>>>>
>> I was not deeply involved with the docs so I am not 100% certain,
>> but I
>> believe that the were "labeled" - similar to "tagged" in
>> clearcase :( post
>> release with the same label as the release. This way future
>> packaging
>> contained the translation. This does not seem like the best
>> approach
>> though.
>>
>
> Yeah, I'm -1 on overlaying the tag
>
+1 on your -1
>
>>>> Another option we discussed would be get just the doc/ dir tagged
>>>> with with the translations post release (e.g.
>>>> JBoss_Seam_2_0_2_GA_TR1) and release a separate zip including
>>>> translated docs.
>>>>
>> I like this tagging approach - because moving forward there are
>> also going
>> to be multiple translations and they probably will not all be
>> finished at
>> the same time. As new ones are completed they can be released.
>>
>
> The other question is, do we do an overlayed main zip and upload to
> sourceforge or not as we go.
>
> Or do we split the docs out completely from the dist, then just
> overlay the docs zip and replace it.
>
I kind of like having the english docs be combined (80/20 rule). I
just did a quick check on 2.0.1.GA and the docs are 38M (unzipped)
but only 4.2M zipped.
Not sure which is the best way here.
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seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
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