I don't know of any enterprise size build that uses Gradle or another one of those frameworks that: - no serious projects uses - no one knows how to configure advanced stuff - doesn't integrate with hudson, nexus, eclipse, intellij and netbeans - but looks really cool.

That being said, you do have a really valid point that our build could use some care: - we violate a lot of maven best practices -- use of<repository> tag -- compile dependencies VS transitive depedencies -- depdencyManagement for all versions in the parent pom -- guvnor's generated files are not all in target directory -- the eclipse plugin should be build with maven tycho -- drools-examples should build in the main build -- there must not be jars in subversion I'd love to clean it up, but I have no time atm.

And there's also some good things coming our way: - Maven 3 is coming very soon (twitter jason: "Maven 3.0-beta-1: 1 issue remaining Apr 9th") - and it's huge leap forward (twitter ceki: "Started building logback using maven 3. With mvnsh, the "mvn compile site" command which took 8 seconds now takes less than 1 second. Cool.") - Jboss will upgrade to a nexus professional repository (tommorrow I think)

With kind regards, Geoffrey De Smet tolitius schreef: > Just wondering if any of the devs considered to use something a bit more > efficient for the whole Drools Suite build. Maven is really painful, > especially for huge source bases with cross dependencies like drools... > > Ivy? Gradle? Buildr? > > /Anatoly > _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev

@Mark, @ge0ffrey, Cool, that is good news. A least splitting this humongous build tree would be immediately useful. As far, as the argument that no one uses Gradle or IVY, I completely disagree: 1. I have worked on at least (from what I can recall) 4 enterprise [quite large] clients that used IVY, and let me tell you, build teams were extremely fast efficient, compare to Maven madness I usually see. 2. "no serious projects uses", well, how is Spring Framework for a serious project? Spring 3.0 uses IVY. I understand you may no find all the dynamic languages serious [ I call in an "enterprise fear" :) ], but Grails uses Gradle, as well as Spock, and many others. 3. IVY Hudson plugin: http://wiki.hudson-ci.org/display/HUDSON/Ivy+Plugin Gradle Hudson plugin: http://wiki.hudson-ci.org/display/HUDSON/Gradle+Plugin 4. "no one knows how to configure advanced stuff", "nobody uses it, etc..". well 10 years ago nobody would use Spring ( or Seam, just to be closer to JBoss hearts here :) ), everybody used EJB2, right? You get my drift.. 5. Looked at Nexus Repo + Maven 3, listened to Jason van Zyl on a couple of conferences... Seems... ok, but a bit too complicated, but I guess, if JBoss goes this direction, Drools has no choice in a matter.. /Anatoly -- View this message in context: http://n3.nabble.com/Dropping-Maven-for-Gradle-tp727052p728300.html Sent from the Drools - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev

Before you move to Maven 3. There is still a chance to do the right thing: http://community.jboss.org/wiki/Gradlewhy one of the JBoss projects ( Hibernate ) already realized that. Time for Drools to do to. /Anatoly -- View this message in context: http://drools-java-rules-engine.46999.n3.nabble.com/Dropping-Maven-for-Gr... Sent from the Drools - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev

From: Geoffrey De Smet <ge0ffrey.spam(a)gmail.com&gt; Subject: Re: [rules-dev] Dropping Maven 2 for Gradle? To: rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org Date: Sunday, July 11, 2010, 8:55 AM Steve makes some good, valid points on that blog about Maven 2. I get the feeling that Maven 3 fixes a lot of those problems and the maven 3.1 promises a lot too. At Devoxx 2009 I saw 2 presentations: - Gradle (the lead, forgot his name): showed a build of a one module project with one source file - and it was fast. All in all, Gradle felt like a toy (I must be wrong since the Hibernate guys are serious). - a Maven 3 (the lead, Jason) presentation: he basically went over all the things I hate about maven 2 and stated that maven 3 or 3.1 would fix them while remaining backward compatible. He showed a large multi-project build with tons of sources files and it was relatively fast. It will be very interesting to see how hibernate's experimentation with Gradle goes and how the maven guys react. Nevertheless, I am convinced that most of the problems in our build are fixable, by cleaning up our build:    https://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/JBRULES-2504 If I get some time for that, I 'd love to pull the effort to fix those issues. With kind regards, Geoffrey De Smet Salaboy schreef: > I think that after the release it would be nice to research on this kind of things. And now if jboss has another framework that uses gradle, probably will be easier to migrate > > - CTO @ http://www.plugtree.com > - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com > - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar > - Mauricio "Salaboy" Salatino - > > On Jul 9, 2010, at 4:25, tolitius <webakaunt(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > >> Before you move to Maven 3. There is still a chance to do the right thing: >> >>   http://community.jboss.org/wiki/Gradlewhy >> >> one of the JBoss projects ( Hibernate ) already realized that. Time for >> Drools to do to. >> >> /Anatoly >> -- >> View this message in context: http://drools-java-rules-engine.46999.n3.nabble.com/Dropping-Maven-for-Gr... >> Sent from the Drools - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> _______________________________________________ >> rules-dev mailing list >> rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev > > _______________________________________________ > rules-dev mailing list > rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev > _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev

Steve makes some good, valid points on that blog about Maven 2. I get the feeling that Maven 3 fixes a lot of those problems and the maven 3.1 promises a lot too. At Devoxx 2009 I saw 2 presentations: - Gradle (the lead, forgot his name): showed a build of a one module project with one source file - and it was fast. All in all, Gradle felt like a toy (I must be wrong since the Hibernate guys are serious). - a Maven 3 (the lead, Jason) presentation: he basically went over all the things I hate about maven 2 and stated that maven 3 or 3.1 would fix them while remaining backward compatible. He showed a large multi-project build with tons of sources files and it was relatively fast. It will be very interesting to see how hibernate's experimentation with Gradle goes and how the maven guys react. Nevertheless, I am convinced that most of the problems in our build are fixable, by cleaning up our build: https://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/JBRULES-2504 If I get some time for that, I 'd love to pull the effort to fix those issues. With kind regards, Geoffrey De Smet Salaboy schreef: > I think that after the release it would be nice to research on this kind of things. And now if jboss has another framework that uses gradle, probably will be easier to migrate > > - CTO @ http://www.plugtree.com > - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com > - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar > - Mauricio "Salaboy" Salatino - > > On Jul 9, 2010, at 4:25, tolitius&lt;webakaunt(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > >> Before you move to Maven 3. There is still a chance to do the right thing: >> >> http://community.jboss.org/wiki/Gradlewhy >> >> one of the JBoss projects ( Hibernate ) already realized that. Time for >> Drools to do to. >> >> /Anatoly >> -- >> View this message in context: http://drools-java-rules-engine.46999.n3.nabble.com/Dropping-Maven-for-Gr... >> Sent from the Drools - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> _______________________________________________ >> rules-dev mailing list >> rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev > _______________________________________________ > rules-dev mailing list > rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev > _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev

I think you mean gradle - but yes, that makes sense. There were others I was fond of - buildr was one - as far as I know, the nice things about all these "alternative" tools is that they at the least reuse the maven repositories and meta data - so it isn't starting from scratch. As a consumer of libraries, I like having declarative dependencies, no matter what my build system is, so that is a good thing. I think the drools build is pretty much as complex as hibernate - more so even - drools has a few stand alone components that have quite fiddly build steps (which still probably aren't fully automated), things like GWT, building cut down app servers etc... so it is worth watching closely how hibernate do. Myself - I know that MarkP has struggled for years with maven, and won most battles - so the day I see mark switch to gradle/whatever, is the day I would probably switch. Maven 3 promises to be compatible - so that is an improvement over maven1 (not sure if many remember that... oh the horror). On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:23 AM, Mark Proctor <mproctor(a)codehaus.org <mailto:mproctor@codehaus.org>> wrote: I'm happy to let the hibernate people guinee pig Grails. Initially we'll move to maven 3 (as it's backwards compatible), and for the moment maven is still what most people are familiar with. We'll be restructuring the build over time and if maven 3 doesn't do what we need and/or hibernate people are reporting amazing results with no sign of improvements to maven, then we can evaluate Grails. Mark On 11/07/2010 14:55, Geoffrey De Smet wrote: > Steve makes some good, valid points on that blog about Maven 2. > I get the feeling that Maven 3 fixes a lot of those problems and the > maven 3.1 promises a lot too. > At Devoxx 2009 I saw 2 presentations: > - Gradle (the lead, forgot his name): showed a build of a one module > project with one source file - and it was fast. All in all, Gradle felt > like a toy (I must be wrong since the Hibernate guys are serious). > - a Maven 3 (the lead, Jason) presentation: he basically went over all > the things I hate about maven 2 and stated that maven 3 or 3.1 would fix > them while remaining backward compatible. He showed a large > multi-project build with tons of sources files and it was relatively fast. > > It will be very interesting to see how hibernate's experimentation with > Gradle goes and how the maven guys react. > > > Nevertheless, I am convinced that most of the problems in our build are > fixable, by cleaning up our build: > https://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/JBRULES-2504 > If I get some time for that, I 'd love to pull the effort to fix those > issues. > > With kind regards, > Geoffrey De Smet > > > Salaboy schreef: >> I think that after the release it would be nice to research on this kind of things. And now if jboss has another framework that uses gradle, probably will be easier to migrate >> >> - CTO @ http://www.plugtree.com >> - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com >> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar >> - Mauricio "Salaboy" Salatino - >> >> On Jul 9, 2010, at 4:25, tolitius&lt;webakaunt(a)gmail.com <mailto:webakaunt@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >>> Before you move to Maven 3. There is still a chance to do the right thing: >>> >>> http://community.jboss.org/wiki/Gradlewhy >>> >>> one of the JBoss projects ( Hibernate ) already realized that. Time for >>> Drools to do to. >>> >>> /Anatoly >>> -- >>> View this message in context: http://drools-java-rules-engine.46999.n3.nabble.com/Dropping-Maven-for-Gr... >>> Sent from the Drools - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> rules-dev mailing list >>> rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-dev@lists.jboss.org> >>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev >> _______________________________________________ >> rules-dev mailing list >> rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-dev@lists.jboss.org> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev >> > _______________________________________________ > rules-dev mailing list > rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-dev@lists.jboss.org> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev > > _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:rules-dev@lists.jboss.org> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev -- Michael D Neale home: www.michaelneale.net <http://www.michaelneale.net> blog: michaelneale.blogspot.com <http://michaelneale.blogspot.com> _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev

On 11/07/2010 23:55, Michael Neale wrote: I think you mean gradle - but yes, that makes sense. There were others I was fond of - buildr was one - as far as I know, the nice things about all these "alternative" tools is that they at the least reuse the maven repositories and meta data - so it isn't starting from scratch. As a consumer of libraries, I like having declarative dependencies, no matter what my build system is, so that is a good thing. I think the drools build is pretty much as complex as hibernate - more so even - drools has a few stand alone components that have quite fiddly build steps (which still probably aren't fully automated), things like GWT, building cut down app servers etc... so it is worth watching closely how hibernate do. Myself - I know that MarkP has struggled for years with maven, and won most battles - so the day I see mark switch to gradle/whatever, is the day I would probably switch. Build systems can suck time like nothing else, I've wasted so much time in the past. So in general the less time I spend working on the build the better, and at the moment it's not taking up a lot of time, so I have to get a strong itch to swap one pain for another ;) We will be splitting up the build going forward, so we'll see how much pain we go through there and whether it creates a strong enough itch. Mark Maven 3 promises to be compatible - so that is an improvement over maven1 (not sure if many remember that... oh the horror). On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:23 AM, Mark Proctor <mproctor(a)codehaus.org&gt;wrote: > I'm happy to let the hibernate people guinee pig Grails. Initially > we'll move to maven 3 (as it's backwards compatible), and for the moment > maven is still what most people are familiar with. > > We'll be restructuring the build over time and if maven 3 doesn't do > what we need and/or hibernate people are reporting amazing results with > no sign of improvements to maven, then we can evaluate Grails. > > Mark > > > On 11/07/2010 14:55, Geoffrey De Smet wrote: > > Steve makes some good, valid points on that blog about Maven 2. > > I get the feeling that Maven 3 fixes a lot of those problems and the > > maven 3.1 promises a lot too. > > At Devoxx 2009 I saw 2 presentations: > > - Gradle (the lead, forgot his name): showed a build of a one module > > project with one source file - and it was fast. All in all, Gradle felt > > like a toy (I must be wrong since the Hibernate guys are serious). > > - a Maven 3 (the lead, Jason) presentation: he basically went over all > > the things I hate about maven 2 and stated that maven 3 or 3.1 would fix > > them while remaining backward compatible. He showed a large > > multi-project build with tons of sources files and it was relatively > fast. > > > > It will be very interesting to see how hibernate's experimentation with > > Gradle goes and how the maven guys react. > > > > > > Nevertheless, I am convinced that most of the problems in our build are > > fixable, by cleaning up our build: > > https://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/JBRULES-2504 > > If I get some time for that, I 'd love to pull the effort to fix those > > issues. > > > > With kind regards, > > Geoffrey De Smet > > > > > > Salaboy schreef: > >> I think that after the release it would be nice to research on this > kind of things. And now if jboss has another framework that uses gradle, > probably will be easier to migrate > >> > >> - CTO @ http://www.plugtree.com > >> - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com > >> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar > >> - Mauricio "Salaboy" Salatino - > >> > >> On Jul 9, 2010, at 4:25, tolitius&lt;webakaunt(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > >> > >>> Before you move to Maven 3. There is still a chance to do the right > thing: > >>> > >>> http://community.jboss.org/wiki/Gradlewhy > >>> > >>> one of the JBoss projects ( Hibernate ) already realized that. Time > for > >>> Drools to do to. > >>> > >>> /Anatoly > >>> -- > >>> View this message in context: > http://drools-java-rules-engine.46999.n3.nabble.com/Dropping-Maven-for-Gr... > >>> Sent from the Drools - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> rules-dev mailing list > >>> rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev > >> _______________________________________________ > >> rules-dev mailing list > >> rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > rules-dev mailing list > > rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > rules-dev mailing list > rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev > -- Michael D Neale home: www.michaelneale.net blog: michaelneale.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing listrules-dev@lists.jboss.orghttps://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev

Just wondering if any of the devs considered to use something a bit more efficient for the whole Drools Suite build. Maven is really painful, especially for huge source bases with cross dependencies like drools... Ivy? Gradle? Buildr? /Anatoly -- View this message in context: http://n3.nabble.com/Dropping-Maven-for-Gradle-tp727052p727052.html Sent from the Drools - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ rules-dev mailing list rules-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-dev