Hi, TL;DR: please vote here if you don't want to end up having to use a chat tool you don't like: https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre HipChat Cloud will stop working on February 15th, 2019 [1]. We need to choose an alternative before we have our back against the wall, so I'll try to resurrect the conversation. As a reminder, Stride is no longer an option: Atlassian cancelled the project, and encourages users to migrate to Slack. The discussed options so far were: - *Moving back to IRC*. Aye: ?; nay: ? Pros: simple as hell. Cons: basic as hell; we won't keep the chat history. - *Migrating to Slack* [6], as suggested by Atlassian [2]. Aye: Christian B; Nay: ? Pros: we will keep the chat history (I think). Cons: not open-source; desktop client consumes a lot of resources. - *Migrating to Zulip* [3]. Aye: Emmanuel, Yoann. Nay: Guillaume (kind of). Pros: Advanced conversation management thanks to the "topics" feature. Cons: Complex to use because of the "topics" feature; we won't keep the chat history (1). - *Migrating to Gitter* [5] (we'll create different rooms, probably). Aye: ?, Nay: ? Pros: Users seem to actually go there, so we could have our "live support" rooms next to our "internal discussion" rooms. Cons: not open-source; we won't keep the chat history (1). I created a poll based on the discussion we had on the thread "[hibernate-dev] Stride". I think everyone had the time to suggest another option. Please vote here and now, or remain silent forever ;): https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre I'd suggest the following rules: if there's a single clear winner (a platform that everyone would be happy with), we'll pick that one. If there are multiple clear winners, whoever does the migration work will pick what's easier to set up (taking into account the various integrations). Otherwise, back to discussing it on this thread... (1) There seems to be some work in progress on a migration tool from HipChat to Zulip, but it doesn't seem to be ready yet [4] [1] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/faq#faq-da2b66a1-53d3-4c4e-a... [2] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/migration [3] https://hibernate.zulipchat.com/ [4] https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10647 [5] https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-orm [6] https://slackdemo.com/ Yoann Rodière Hibernate NoORM Team yoann(a)hibernate.org _______________________________________________ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

Any consensus on this yet? On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:21 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > Thanks for starting this! > > The choice of IRC is a bit special on the list as we never intended it > to be killed: it has been historically important and we should > maintain some level of reachability on it. So voting for the "IRC" > choice just means a preference to not use anything else on top of it, > while alternatively we'' be using X on top of IRC, albeit with a > preference to use X for team conversations. > > Also good to remind: please try to be on IRC as well occasionally as > many in the OSS community we integrate with will reach out there. > > Thanks, > Sanne > > On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 09:46, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > TL;DR: please vote here if you don't want to end up having to use a chat > > tool you don't like: https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre > > > > HipChat Cloud will stop working on February 15th, 2019 [1]. We need to > > choose an alternative before we have our back against the wall, so I'll > try > > to resurrect the conversation. > > > > As a reminder, Stride is no longer an option: Atlassian cancelled the > > project, and encourages users to migrate to Slack. > > > > The discussed options so far were: > > > > - *Moving back to IRC*. Aye: ?; nay: ? > > Pros: simple as hell. > > Cons: basic as hell; we won't keep the chat history. > > - *Migrating to Slack* [6], as suggested by Atlassian [2]. Aye: > > Christian B; Nay: ? > > Pros: we will keep the chat history (I think). > > Cons: not open-source; desktop client consumes a lot of resources. > > - *Migrating to Zulip* [3]. Aye: Emmanuel, Yoann. Nay: Guillaume > (kind > > of). > > Pros: Advanced conversation management thanks to the "topics" > feature. > > Cons: Complex to use because of the "topics" feature; we won't keep > the > > chat history (1). > > - *Migrating to Gitter* [5] (we'll create different rooms, probably). > > Aye: ?, Nay: ? > > Pros: Users seem to actually go there, so we could have our "live > > support" rooms next to our "internal discussion" rooms. > > Cons: not open-source; we won't keep the chat history (1). > > > > I created a poll based on the discussion we had on the thread > > "[hibernate-dev] Stride". I think everyone had the time to suggest > another > > option. > > > > Please vote here and now, or remain silent forever ;): > > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre > > > > I'd suggest the following rules: if there's a single clear winner (a > > platform that everyone would be happy with), we'll pick that one. If > there > > are multiple clear winners, whoever does the migration work will pick > > what's easier to set up (taking into account the various integrations). > > Otherwise, back to discussing it on this thread... > > > > (1) There seems to be some work in progress on a migration tool from > > HipChat to Zulip, but it doesn't seem to be ready yet [4] > > > > [1] > > > https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/faq#faq-da2b66a1-53d3-4c4e-a... > > [2] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/migration > > [3] https://hibernate.zulipchat.com/ > > [4] https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10647 > > [5] https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-orm > > [6] https://slackdemo.com/ > > > > Yoann Rodière > > Hibernate NoORM Team > > yoann(a)hibernate.org > > _______________________________________________ > > hibernate-dev mailing list > > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > _______________________________________________ > hibernate-dev mailing list > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

I think all day-to-day users of our chat voted. Here are the results: IRC: 4 Yes, 5 "if need be", 6 no. Slack: 5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no Zulip: 5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no Gitter: 10 Yes, 1 "if need be", 4 no It seems Gitter won. That's the only option with more "Yes" than "No"... It's got the most "Yes" (even counting "if need be"), and perhaps more importantly it's got the least amount of "no". To those who voted no: if you have specific concerns about Gitter, could you please mention them here? Maybe we can find solutions to some of the problems. I'll look into moving the Hibernate Search chat to Gitter and will report back on this thread. Yoann Rodière Hibernate NoORM Team yoann(a)hibernate.org On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 at 08:25, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > Not everyone voted, far from it; we're missing votes from Gail, > Guillaume, Fabio, Chris, Davide, Emmanuel, Koen. So no, no consensus yet. > > I sent an email to them off-list, perhaps they didn't see this thread. > > Provisional results are as follows: > > IRC: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no > Slack: 2 Yes, 2 "if need be", 4 no > Zulip: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no > Gitter: 6 Yes, 0 "if need be", 2 no > > So Gitter seems on the verge of winning, but apparently some people are > categorically against it, so I'd say we'll have to give them a chance to > explain why. I'll wait for everyone to answer, though, since they could > completely change the results. > > Yoann Rodière > Hibernate NoORM Team > yoann(a)hibernate.org > > > On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 13:35, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > >> Any consensus on this yet? >> >> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:21 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; >> wrote: >> >>> Thanks for starting this! >>> >>> The choice of IRC is a bit special on the list as we never intended it >>> to be killed: it has been historically important and we should >>> maintain some level of reachability on it. So voting for the "IRC" >>> choice just means a preference to not use anything else on top of it, >>> while alternatively we'' be using X on top of IRC, albeit with a >>> preference to use X for team conversations. >>> >>> Also good to remind: please try to be on IRC as well occasionally as >>> many in the OSS community we integrate with will reach out there. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Sanne >>> >>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 09:46, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi, >>> > >>> > TL;DR: please vote here if you don't want to end up having to use a >>> chat >>> > tool you don't like: https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre >>> > >>> > HipChat Cloud will stop working on February 15th, 2019 [1]. We need to >>> > choose an alternative before we have our back against the wall, so >>> I'll try >>> > to resurrect the conversation. >>> > >>> > As a reminder, Stride is no longer an option: Atlassian cancelled the >>> > project, and encourages users to migrate to Slack. >>> > >>> > The discussed options so far were: >>> > >>> > - *Moving back to IRC*. Aye: ?; nay: ? >>> > Pros: simple as hell. >>> > Cons: basic as hell; we won't keep the chat history. >>> > - *Migrating to Slack* [6], as suggested by Atlassian [2]. Aye: >>> > Christian B; Nay: ? >>> > Pros: we will keep the chat history (I think). >>> > Cons: not open-source; desktop client consumes a lot of resources. >>> > - *Migrating to Zulip* [3]. Aye: Emmanuel, Yoann. Nay: Guillaume >>> (kind >>> > of). >>> > Pros: Advanced conversation management thanks to the "topics" >>> feature. >>> > Cons: Complex to use because of the "topics" feature; we won't >>> keep the >>> > chat history (1). >>> > - *Migrating to Gitter* [5] (we'll create different rooms, >>> probably). >>> > Aye: ?, Nay: ? >>> > Pros: Users seem to actually go there, so we could have our "live >>> > support" rooms next to our "internal discussion" rooms. >>> > Cons: not open-source; we won't keep the chat history (1). >>> > >>> > I created a poll based on the discussion we had on the thread >>> > "[hibernate-dev] Stride". I think everyone had the time to suggest >>> another >>> > option. >>> > >>> > Please vote here and now, or remain silent forever ;): >>> > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre >>> > >>> > I'd suggest the following rules: if there's a single clear winner (a >>> > platform that everyone would be happy with), we'll pick that one. If >>> there >>> > are multiple clear winners, whoever does the migration work will pick >>> > what's easier to set up (taking into account the various >>> integrations). >>> > Otherwise, back to discussing it on this thread... >>> > >>> > (1) There seems to be some work in progress on a migration tool from >>> > HipChat to Zulip, but it doesn't seem to be ready yet [4] >>> > >>> > [1] >>> > >>> https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/faq#faq-da2b66a1-53d3-4c4e-a... >>> > [2] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/migration >>> > [3] https://hibernate.zulipchat.com/ >>> > [4] https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10647 >>> > [5] https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-orm >>> > [6] https://slackdemo.com/ >>> > >>> > Yoann Rodière >>> > Hibernate NoORM Team >>> > yoann(a)hibernate.org >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > hibernate-dev mailing list >>> > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> hibernate-dev mailing list >>> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev >> >>

Hi, So, one thing I find particularly annoying with Gitter now that we are trying to use it for real interactions is the lack of notification sounds in the webapp. When you're focused on your work, it's really easy to miss the visual ones and having a sound really helped on HipChat. There is an open issue here: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitter/webapp/issues/735 . AFAICS in the commit log, there's one person working on Gitter and it's not making tremendous progress. (Yeah, I know, it's Open Source, I can contribute...) -- Guillaume On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 3:47 PM Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > Hi, > > TL;DR: I created the Gitter rooms. Let's all go there for a few days, at > least to try it? > > *Connecting* > > Obviously you can just connect to https://gitter.im/ and use the browser. > You can sign in with your Github, Gitlab or Twitter account. > > There are also desktop/mobile applications. https://gitter.im/apps > They only provide .deb packages, though, and I wasn't able to convert them > easily using alien (I didn't try very hard). There is a snap out there, but > it's an old version that isn't allow to use the Gitter APIs anymore. > > If you prefer to use IRC, they apparently provide a bridge. I don't know > what it's worth, but you can always give it a try: see > https://irc.gitter.im/ . > > *What's next?* > > Let's try to use it for a few days, see if everyone is comfortable with it? > Let's see if there isn't any blocker for anyone, and if the news from other > projects (such as WildFly moving to Slack) don't make use change our minds. > > Then if everyone is okay with it, we can finalize everything: > > - Invite external people to our rooms (I didn't invite anyone except our > own team) > - Advertise Gitter as our main chat platform: > - On our websites > - On IRC (we should at least mention it in the "message of the day") > - On the hibernate-announce mailing list > - In the REAME file of our projects through a badge: []( > https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id > ?utm_source=badge&utm_medium=badge&utm_campaign=pr-badge) > - Close the HipChat rooms somehow. > > *Available rooms* > > For each of our main projects, I created one room bound to the GitHub > repository for users, and *one *-dev room for our own use*. > I also created rooms based on what I could see in HipChat (branding, ...). > > You can find a list of all rooms here: https://gitter.im/hibernate/home > > I already added people according to which room they were member of in > HipChat, but I may have missed some. Please check which room you are > subscribed to. > > *Settings* > > You can configure how often you want to be notified for each room: go to > the room, click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the top > right, then "Notifications". > In this same popup, you have the option of setting general defaults. > > Also, a dark theme is available: click on your avatar on the top right, > then "Toggle Dark Theme". > > That's pretty much it. > > *Configuring your rooms* > > I configured the main rooms to receive Github notifications on the > "activity tab" to the right, as well as Jenkins notifications for the > "master" and "PR" job (when I found it). Feel free to add more integration > if you want to. > > How to add a Jenkins integration: > > - If your room doesn't have a Jenkins integration yet (most have): > - Go to the room on Gitter > - Click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the top > right, then "Integrations". > - Select "Jenkins" > - Select the events you want to be notified of > - Copy the webhook URL near the bottom > - Create new credentials on Jenkins: > > http://ci.hibernate.org/credentials/store/system/domain/_/newCredentials > - In the "Kind" field, select "Secret text" > - Leave the "Scope" to "Global" > - In the "Secret" field, paste the webhook URL > - In the "ID" field, put "gitter-webhook-url-<ID of your room>" > - In the "description" field, put "Gitter webhook URL for the <ID > of your room> room" > - Click "OK" > - For each Jenkins job: > - On the job page in Jenkins, click "Configure" > - Select the "Job Notifications" tab near the top > - Click "Add endpoint" > - Leave the format to "JSON" and the protocol to "HTTP" > - Set "URL Source" to "Credentials Store" > - In the "URL" box, select the entry corresponding to your room, > which should normally appear as "Gitter webhook URL for the <ID of > your room> room" > - Click "Save" > > > > Hibernate NoORM Team > yoann(a)hibernate.org > > > On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 at 11:40, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > > > I think all day-to-day users of our chat voted. Here are the results: > > > > IRC: 4 Yes, 5 "if need be", 6 no. > > Slack: 5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no > > Zulip: 5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no > > Gitter: 10 Yes, 1 "if need be", 4 no > > > > It seems Gitter won. That's the only option with more "Yes" than "No"... > > It's got the most "Yes" (even counting "if need be"), and perhaps more > > importantly it's got the least amount of "no". > > > > To those who voted no: if you have specific concerns about Gitter, could > > you please mention them here? Maybe we can find solutions to some of the > > problems. > > > > I'll look into moving the Hibernate Search chat to Gitter and will report > > back on this thread. > > > > Yoann Rodière > > Hibernate NoORM Team > > yoann(a)hibernate.org > > > > > > On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 at 08:25, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > > > >> Not everyone voted, far from it; we're missing votes from Gail, > >> Guillaume, Fabio, Chris, Davide, Emmanuel, Koen. So no, no consensus > yet. > >> > >> I sent an email to them off-list, perhaps they didn't see this thread. > >> > >> Provisional results are as follows: > >> > >> IRC: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no > >> Slack: 2 Yes, 2 "if need be", 4 no > >> Zulip: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no > >> Gitter: 6 Yes, 0 "if need be", 2 no > >> > >> So Gitter seems on the verge of winning, but apparently some people are > >> categorically against it, so I'd say we'll have to give them a chance to > >> explain why. I'll wait for everyone to answer, though, since they could > >> completely change the results. > >> > >> Yoann Rodière > >> Hibernate NoORM Team > >> yoann(a)hibernate.org > >> > >> > >> On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 13:35, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; > wrote: > >> > >>> Any consensus on this yet? > >>> > >>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:21 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Thanks for starting this! > >>>> > >>>> The choice of IRC is a bit special on the list as we never intended it > >>>> to be killed: it has been historically important and we should > >>>> maintain some level of reachability on it. So voting for the "IRC" > >>>> choice just means a preference to not use anything else on top of it, > >>>> while alternatively we'' be using X on top of IRC, albeit with a > >>>> preference to use X for team conversations. > >>>> > >>>> Also good to remind: please try to be on IRC as well occasionally as > >>>> many in the OSS community we integrate with will reach out there. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Sanne > >>>> > >>>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 09:46, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > > >>>> > Hi, > >>>> > > >>>> > TL;DR: please vote here if you don't want to end up having to use a > >>>> chat > >>>> > tool you don't like: https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre > >>>> > > >>>> > HipChat Cloud will stop working on February 15th, 2019 [1]. We need > to > >>>> > choose an alternative before we have our back against the wall, so > >>>> I'll try > >>>> > to resurrect the conversation. > >>>> > > >>>> > As a reminder, Stride is no longer an option: Atlassian cancelled > the > >>>> > project, and encourages users to migrate to Slack. > >>>> > > >>>> > The discussed options so far were: > >>>> > > >>>> > - *Moving back to IRC*. Aye: ?; nay: ? > >>>> > Pros: simple as hell. > >>>> > Cons: basic as hell; we won't keep the chat history. > >>>> > - *Migrating to Slack* [6], as suggested by Atlassian [2]. Aye: > >>>> > Christian B; Nay: ? > >>>> > Pros: we will keep the chat history (I think). > >>>> > Cons: not open-source; desktop client consumes a lot of > resources. > >>>> > - *Migrating to Zulip* [3]. Aye: Emmanuel, Yoann. Nay: Guillaume > >>>> (kind > >>>> > of). > >>>> > Pros: Advanced conversation management thanks to the "topics" > >>>> feature. > >>>> > Cons: Complex to use because of the "topics" feature; we won't > >>>> keep the > >>>> > chat history (1). > >>>> > - *Migrating to Gitter* [5] (we'll create different rooms, > >>>> probably). > >>>> > Aye: ?, Nay: ? > >>>> > Pros: Users seem to actually go there, so we could have our "live > >>>> > support" rooms next to our "internal discussion" rooms. > >>>> > Cons: not open-source; we won't keep the chat history (1). > >>>> > > >>>> > I created a poll based on the discussion we had on the thread > >>>> > "[hibernate-dev] Stride". I think everyone had the time to suggest > >>>> another > >>>> > option. > >>>> > > >>>> > Please vote here and now, or remain silent forever ;): > >>>> > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre > >>>> > > >>>> > I'd suggest the following rules: if there's a single clear winner (a > >>>> > platform that everyone would be happy with), we'll pick that one. If > >>>> there > >>>> > are multiple clear winners, whoever does the migration work will > pick > >>>> > what's easier to set up (taking into account the various > >>>> integrations). > >>>> > Otherwise, back to discussing it on this thread... > >>>> > > >>>> > (1) There seems to be some work in progress on a migration tool from > >>>> > HipChat to Zulip, but it doesn't seem to be ready yet [4] > >>>> > > >>>> > [1] > >>>> > > >>>> > https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/faq#faq-da2b66a1-53d3-4c4e-a... > >>>> > [2] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/migration > >>>> > [3] https://hibernate.zulipchat.com/ > >>>> > [4] https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10647 > >>>> > [5] https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-orm > >>>> > [6] https://slackdemo.com/ > >>>> > > >>>> > Yoann Rodière > >>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team > >>>> > yoann(a)hibernate.org > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> > hibernate-dev mailing list > >>>> > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >>>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> hibernate-dev mailing list > >>>> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > hibernate-dev mailing list > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev _______________________________________________ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

Are you using the webapp? Because I don't see any preference to enable sound and there is no sound at all when I get a notification. On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:21 AM Gunnar Morling <gunnar(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > > Have you tried "Room Settings" -> "Notifications"? We're on Gitter for > Debezium, too, and in fact the notifications were too noisy for me, so > I turned them off :) > > --Gunnar > > Am Mo., 12. Nov. 2018 um 10:59 Uhr schrieb Guillaume Smet > <guillaume.smet(a)gmail.com&gt;: > > > > Hi, > > > > So, one thing I find particularly annoying with Gitter now that we are > > trying to use it for real interactions is the lack of notification sounds > > in the webapp. When you're focused on your work, it's really easy to miss > > the visual ones and having a sound really helped on HipChat. > > > > There is an open issue here: > > https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitter/webapp/issues/735 . > > > > AFAICS in the commit log, there's one person working on Gitter and it's not > > making tremendous progress. > > > > (Yeah, I know, it's Open Source, I can contribute...) > > > > -- > > Guillaume > > > > On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 3:47 PM Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > TL;DR: I created the Gitter rooms. Let's all go there for a few days, at > > > least to try it? > > > > > > *Connecting* > > > > > > Obviously you can just connect to https://gitter.im/ and use the browser. > > > You can sign in with your Github, Gitlab or Twitter account. > > > > > > There are also desktop/mobile applications. https://gitter.im/apps > > > They only provide .deb packages, though, and I wasn't able to convert them > > > easily using alien (I didn't try very hard). There is a snap out there, but > > > it's an old version that isn't allow to use the Gitter APIs anymore. > > > > > > If you prefer to use IRC, they apparently provide a bridge. I don't know > > > what it's worth, but you can always give it a try: see > > > https://irc.gitter.im/ . > > > > > > *What's next?* > > > > > > Let's try to use it for a few days, see if everyone is comfortable with it? > > > Let's see if there isn't any blocker for anyone, and if the news from other > > > projects (such as WildFly moving to Slack) don't make use change our minds. > > > > > > Then if everyone is okay with it, we can finalize everything: > > > > > > - Invite external people to our rooms (I didn't invite anyone except our > > > own team) > > > - Advertise Gitter as our main chat platform: > > > - On our websites > > > - On IRC (we should at least mention it in the "message of the day") > > > - On the hibernate-announce mailing list > > > - In the REAME file of our projects through a badge: []( > > > https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id > > > ?utm_source=badge&utm_medium=badge&utm_campaign=pr-badge) > > > - Close the HipChat rooms somehow. > > > > > > *Available rooms* > > > > > > For each of our main projects, I created one room bound to the GitHub > > > repository for users, and *one *-dev room for our own use*. > > > I also created rooms based on what I could see in HipChat (branding, ...). > > > > > > You can find a list of all rooms here: https://gitter.im/hibernate/home > > > > > > I already added people according to which room they were member of in > > > HipChat, but I may have missed some. Please check which room you are > > > subscribed to. > > > > > > *Settings* > > > > > > You can configure how often you want to be notified for each room: go to > > > the room, click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the top > > > right, then "Notifications". > > > In this same popup, you have the option of setting general defaults. > > > > > > Also, a dark theme is available: click on your avatar on the top right, > > > then "Toggle Dark Theme". > > > > > > That's pretty much it. > > > > > > *Configuring your rooms* > > > > > > I configured the main rooms to receive Github notifications on the > > > "activity tab" to the right, as well as Jenkins notifications for the > > > "master" and "PR" job (when I found it). Feel free to add more integration > > > if you want to. > > > > > > How to add a Jenkins integration: > > > > > > - If your room doesn't have a Jenkins integration yet (most have): > > > - Go to the room on Gitter > > > - Click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the top > > > right, then "Integrations". > > > - Select "Jenkins" > > > - Select the events you want to be notified of > > > - Copy the webhook URL near the bottom > > > - Create new credentials on Jenkins: > > > > > > http://ci.hibernate.org/credentials/store/system/domain/_/newCredentials > > > - In the "Kind" field, select "Secret text" > > > - Leave the "Scope" to "Global" > > > - In the "Secret" field, paste the webhook URL > > > - In the "ID" field, put "gitter-webhook-url-<ID of your room>" > > > - In the "description" field, put "Gitter webhook URL for the <ID > > > of your room> room" > > > - Click "OK" > > > - For each Jenkins job: > > > - On the job page in Jenkins, click "Configure" > > > - Select the "Job Notifications" tab near the top > > > - Click "Add endpoint" > > > - Leave the format to "JSON" and the protocol to "HTTP" > > > - Set "URL Source" to "Credentials Store" > > > - In the "URL" box, select the entry corresponding to your room, > > > which should normally appear as "Gitter webhook URL for the <ID of > > > your room> room" > > > - Click "Save" > > > > > > > > > > > > Hibernate NoORM Team > > > yoann(a)hibernate.org > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 at 11:40, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > > > > > > > I think all day-to-day users of our chat voted. Here are the results: > > > > > > > > IRC: 4 Yes, 5 "if need be", 6 no. > > > > Slack: 5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no > > > > Zulip: 5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no > > > > Gitter: 10 Yes, 1 "if need be", 4 no > > > > > > > > It seems Gitter won. That's the only option with more "Yes" than "No"... > > > > It's got the most "Yes" (even counting "if need be"), and perhaps more > > > > importantly it's got the least amount of "no". > > > > > > > > To those who voted no: if you have specific concerns about Gitter, could > > > > you please mention them here? Maybe we can find solutions to some of the > > > > problems. > > > > > > > > I'll look into moving the Hibernate Search chat to Gitter and will report > > > > back on this thread. > > > > > > > > Yoann Rodière > > > > Hibernate NoORM Team > > > > yoann(a)hibernate.org > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 at 08:25, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > > > > > > > >> Not everyone voted, far from it; we're missing votes from Gail, > > > >> Guillaume, Fabio, Chris, Davide, Emmanuel, Koen. So no, no consensus > > > yet. > > > >> > > > >> I sent an email to them off-list, perhaps they didn't see this thread. > > > >> > > > >> Provisional results are as follows: > > > >> > > > >> IRC: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no > > > >> Slack: 2 Yes, 2 "if need be", 4 no > > > >> Zulip: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no > > > >> Gitter: 6 Yes, 0 "if need be", 2 no > > > >> > > > >> So Gitter seems on the verge of winning, but apparently some people are > > > >> categorically against it, so I'd say we'll have to give them a chance to > > > >> explain why. I'll wait for everyone to answer, though, since they could > > > >> completely change the results. > > > >> > > > >> Yoann Rodière > > > >> Hibernate NoORM Team > > > >> yoann(a)hibernate.org > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 13:35, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Any consensus on this yet? > > > >>> > > > >>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:21 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> Thanks for starting this! > > > >>>> > > > >>>> The choice of IRC is a bit special on the list as we never intended it > > > >>>> to be killed: it has been historically important and we should > > > >>>> maintain some level of reachability on it. So voting for the "IRC" > > > >>>> choice just means a preference to not use anything else on top of it, > > > >>>> while alternatively we'' be using X on top of IRC, albeit with a > > > >>>> preference to use X for team conversations. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Also good to remind: please try to be on IRC as well occasionally as > > > >>>> many in the OSS community we integrate with will reach out there. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Thanks, > > > >>>> Sanne > > > >>>> > > > >>>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 09:46, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; > > > >>>> wrote: > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > Hi, > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > TL;DR: please vote here if you don't want to end up having to use a > > > >>>> chat > > > >>>> > tool you don't like: https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > HipChat Cloud will stop working on February 15th, 2019 [1]. We need > > > to > > > >>>> > choose an alternative before we have our back against the wall, so > > > >>>> I'll try > > > >>>> > to resurrect the conversation. > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > As a reminder, Stride is no longer an option: Atlassian cancelled > > > the > > > >>>> > project, and encourages users to migrate to Slack. > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > The discussed options so far were: > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > - *Moving back to IRC*. Aye: ?; nay: ? > > > >>>> > Pros: simple as hell. > > > >>>> > Cons: basic as hell; we won't keep the chat history. > > > >>>> > - *Migrating to Slack* [6], as suggested by Atlassian [2]. Aye: > > > >>>> > Christian B; Nay: ? > > > >>>> > Pros: we will keep the chat history (I think). > > > >>>> > Cons: not open-source; desktop client consumes a lot of > > > resources. > > > >>>> > - *Migrating to Zulip* [3]. Aye: Emmanuel, Yoann. Nay: Guillaume > > > >>>> (kind > > > >>>> > of). > > > >>>> > Pros: Advanced conversation management thanks to the "topics" > > > >>>> feature. > > > >>>> > Cons: Complex to use because of the "topics" feature; we won't > > > >>>> keep the > > > >>>> > chat history (1). > > > >>>> > - *Migrating to Gitter* [5] (we'll create different rooms, > > > >>>> probably). > > > >>>> > Aye: ?, Nay: ? > > > >>>> > Pros: Users seem to actually go there, so we could have our "live > > > >>>> > support" rooms next to our "internal discussion" rooms. > > > >>>> > Cons: not open-source; we won't keep the chat history (1). > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > I created a poll based on the discussion we had on the thread > > > >>>> > "[hibernate-dev] Stride". I think everyone had the time to suggest > > > >>>> another > > > >>>> > option. > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > Please vote here and now, or remain silent forever ;): > > > >>>> > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > I'd suggest the following rules: if there's a single clear winner (a > > > >>>> > platform that everyone would be happy with), we'll pick that one. If > > > >>>> there > > > >>>> > are multiple clear winners, whoever does the migration work will > > > pick > > > >>>> > what's easier to set up (taking into account the various > > > >>>> integrations). > > > >>>> > Otherwise, back to discussing it on this thread... > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > (1) There seems to be some work in progress on a migration tool from > > > >>>> > HipChat to Zulip, but it doesn't seem to be ready yet [4] > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > [1] > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/faq#faq-da2b66a1-53d3-4c4e-a... > > > >>>> > [2] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/migration > > > >>>> > [3] https://hibernate.zulipchat.com/ > > > >>>> > [4] https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10647 > > > >>>> > [5] https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-orm > > > >>>> > [6] https://slackdemo.com/ > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > Yoann Rodière > > > >>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team > > > >>>> > yoann(a)hibernate.org > > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > > > >>>> > hibernate-dev mailing list > > > >>>> > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > > > >>>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > > >>>> > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>> hibernate-dev mailing list > > > >>>> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > > > >>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > hibernate-dev mailing list > > > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > _______________________________________________ > > hibernate-dev mailing list > > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

flatpak install flathub im.gitter.Gitter

It's not about having a sound, it's about having a notification e.g. if you don't enable the OS sounds, you don't have a sound. E.g. I think it's your Mac notification framework that produces the sound. On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:31 AM Gunnar Morling <gunnar(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > I'm just on their website, e.g. https://gitter.im/debezium/dev. > There's an icon with three sliders in the upper right corner, next to > my own profile picture. "Notifications" let me choose when I'd like to > have a sound, e.g. never, just for direction mentions or for general > mentions in a room. > Am Mo., 12. Nov. 2018 um 11:28 Uhr schrieb Guillaume Smet > <guillaume.smet(a)gmail.com&gt;: > > > > Are you using the webapp? > > > > Because I don't see any preference to enable sound and there is no sound > at all when I get a notification. > > > > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:21 AM Gunnar Morling <gunnar(a)hibernate.org&gt; > wrote: > >> > >> Have you tried "Room Settings" -> "Notifications"? We're on Gitter for > >> Debezium, too, and in fact the notifications were too noisy for me, so > >> I turned them off :) > >> > >> --Gunnar > >> > >> Am Mo., 12. Nov. 2018 um 10:59 Uhr schrieb Guillaume Smet > >> <guillaume.smet(a)gmail.com&gt;: > >> > > >> > Hi, > >> > > >> > So, one thing I find particularly annoying with Gitter now that we are > >> > trying to use it for real interactions is the lack of notification > sounds > >> > in the webapp. When you're focused on your work, it's really easy to > miss > >> > the visual ones and having a sound really helped on HipChat. > >> > > >> > There is an open issue here: > >> > https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitter/webapp/issues/735 . > >> > > >> > AFAICS in the commit log, there's one person working on Gitter and > it's not > >> > making tremendous progress. > >> > > >> > (Yeah, I know, it's Open Source, I can contribute...) > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Guillaume > >> > > >> > On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 3:47 PM Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; > wrote: > >> > > >> > > Hi, > >> > > > >> > > TL;DR: I created the Gitter rooms. Let's all go there for a few > days, at > >> > > least to try it? > >> > > > >> > > *Connecting* > >> > > > >> > > Obviously you can just connect to https://gitter.im/ and use the > browser. > >> > > You can sign in with your Github, Gitlab or Twitter account. > >> > > > >> > > There are also desktop/mobile applications. https://gitter.im/apps > >> > > They only provide .deb packages, though, and I wasn't able to > convert them > >> > > easily using alien (I didn't try very hard). There is a snap out > there, but > >> > > it's an old version that isn't allow to use the Gitter APIs anymore. > >> > > > >> > > If you prefer to use IRC, they apparently provide a bridge. I don't > know > >> > > what it's worth, but you can always give it a try: see > >> > > https://irc.gitter.im/ . > >> > > > >> > > *What's next?* > >> > > > >> > > Let's try to use it for a few days, see if everyone is comfortable > with it? > >> > > Let's see if there isn't any blocker for anyone, and if the news > from other > >> > > projects (such as WildFly moving to Slack) don't make use change > our minds. > >> > > > >> > > Then if everyone is okay with it, we can finalize everything: > >> > > > >> > > - Invite external people to our rooms (I didn't invite anyone > except our > >> > > own team) > >> > > - Advertise Gitter as our main chat platform: > >> > > - On our websites > >> > > - On IRC (we should at least mention it in the "message of > the day") > >> > > - On the hibernate-announce mailing list > >> > > - In the REAME file of our projects through a badge: > []( > >> > > https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-room-id > >> > > ?utm_source=badge&utm_medium=badge&utm_campaign=pr-badge) > >> > > - Close the HipChat rooms somehow. > >> > > > >> > > *Available rooms* > >> > > > >> > > For each of our main projects, I created one room bound to the > GitHub > >> > > repository for users, and *one *-dev room for our own use*. > >> > > I also created rooms based on what I could see in HipChat > (branding, ...). > >> > > > >> > > You can find a list of all rooms here: > https://gitter.im/hibernate/home > >> > > > >> > > I already added people according to which room they were member of > in > >> > > HipChat, but I may have missed some. Please check which room you are > >> > > subscribed to. > >> > > > >> > > *Settings* > >> > > > >> > > You can configure how often you want to be notified for each room: > go to > >> > > the room, click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the > top > >> > > right, then "Notifications". > >> > > In this same popup, you have the option of setting general defaults. > >> > > > >> > > Also, a dark theme is available: click on your avatar on the top > right, > >> > > then "Toggle Dark Theme". > >> > > > >> > > That's pretty much it. > >> > > > >> > > *Configuring your rooms* > >> > > > >> > > I configured the main rooms to receive Github notifications on the > >> > > "activity tab" to the right, as well as Jenkins notifications for > the > >> > > "master" and "PR" job (when I found it). Feel free to add more > integration > >> > > if you want to. > >> > > > >> > > How to add a Jenkins integration: > >> > > > >> > > - If your room doesn't have a Jenkins integration yet (most > have): > >> > > - Go to the room on Gitter > >> > > - Click on the "settings" button next to your avatar on the > top > >> > > right, then "Integrations". > >> > > - Select "Jenkins" > >> > > - Select the events you want to be notified of > >> > > - Copy the webhook URL near the bottom > >> > > - Create new credentials on Jenkins: > >> > > > >> > > > http://ci.hibernate.org/credentials/store/system/domain/_/newCredentials > >> > > - In the "Kind" field, select "Secret text" > >> > > - Leave the "Scope" to "Global" > >> > > - In the "Secret" field, paste the webhook URL > >> > > - In the "ID" field, put "gitter-webhook-url-<ID of your > room>" > >> > > - In the "description" field, put "Gitter webhook URL for > the <ID > >> > > of your room> room" > >> > > - Click "OK" > >> > > - For each Jenkins job: > >> > > - On the job page in Jenkins, click "Configure" > >> > > - Select the "Job Notifications" tab near the top > >> > > - Click "Add endpoint" > >> > > - Leave the format to "JSON" and the protocol to "HTTP" > >> > > - Set "URL Source" to "Credentials Store" > >> > > - In the "URL" box, select the entry corresponding to your > room, > >> > > which should normally appear as "Gitter webhook URL for the > <ID of > >> > > your room> room" > >> > > - Click "Save" > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Hibernate NoORM Team > >> > > yoann(a)hibernate.org > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 at 11:40, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; > wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > I think all day-to-day users of our chat voted. Here are the > results: > >> > > > > >> > > > IRC: 4 Yes, 5 "if need be", 6 no. > >> > > > Slack: 5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no > >> > > > Zulip: 5 Yes, 3 "if need be", 7 no > >> > > > Gitter: 10 Yes, 1 "if need be", 4 no > >> > > > > >> > > > It seems Gitter won. That's the only option with more "Yes" than > "No"... > >> > > > It's got the most "Yes" (even counting "if need be"), and perhaps > more > >> > > > importantly it's got the least amount of "no". > >> > > > > >> > > > To those who voted no: if you have specific concerns about > Gitter, could > >> > > > you please mention them here? Maybe we can find solutions to some > of the > >> > > > problems. > >> > > > > >> > > > I'll look into moving the Hibernate Search chat to Gitter and > will report > >> > > > back on this thread. > >> > > > > >> > > > Yoann Rodière > >> > > > Hibernate NoORM Team > >> > > > yoann(a)hibernate.org > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 at 08:25, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > >> Not everyone voted, far from it; we're missing votes from Gail, > >> > > >> Guillaume, Fabio, Chris, Davide, Emmanuel, Koen. So no, no > consensus > >> > > yet. > >> > > >> > >> > > >> I sent an email to them off-list, perhaps they didn't see this > thread. > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Provisional results are as follows: > >> > > >> > >> > > >> IRC: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no > >> > > >> Slack: 2 Yes, 2 "if need be", 4 no > >> > > >> Zulip: 2 Yes, 3 "if need be", 3 no > >> > > >> Gitter: 6 Yes, 0 "if need be", 2 no > >> > > >> > >> > > >> So Gitter seems on the verge of winning, but apparently some > people are > >> > > >> categorically against it, so I'd say we'll have to give them a > chance to > >> > > >> explain why. I'll wait for everyone to answer, though, since > they could > >> > > >> completely change the results. > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Yoann Rodière > >> > > >> Hibernate NoORM Team > >> > > >> yoann(a)hibernate.org > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 13:35, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org > > > >> > > wrote: > >> > > >> > >> > > >>> Any consensus on this yet? > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:21 AM Sanne Grinovero < > sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >> > > >>> wrote: > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>>> Thanks for starting this! > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> The choice of IRC is a bit special on the list as we never > intended it > >> > > >>>> to be killed: it has been historically important and we should > >> > > >>>> maintain some level of reachability on it. So voting for the > "IRC" > >> > > >>>> choice just means a preference to not use anything else on top > of it, > >> > > >>>> while alternatively we'' be using X on top of IRC, albeit with > a > >> > > >>>> preference to use X for team conversations. > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> Also good to remind: please try to be on IRC as well > occasionally as > >> > > >>>> many in the OSS community we integrate with will reach out > there. > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> Thanks, > >> > > >>>> Sanne > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 09:46, Yoann Rodiere < > yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >> > > >>>> wrote: > >> > > >>>> > > >> > > >>>> > Hi, > >> > > >>>> > > >> > > >>>> > TL;DR: please vote here if you don't want to end up having > to use a > >> > > >>>> chat > >> > > >>>> > tool you don't like: > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre > >> > > >>>> > > >> > > >>>> > HipChat Cloud will stop working on February 15th, 2019 [1]. > We need > >> > > to > >> > > >>>> > choose an alternative before we have our back against the > wall, so > >> > > >>>> I'll try > >> > > >>>> > to resurrect the conversation. > >> > > >>>> > > >> > > >>>> > As a reminder, Stride is no longer an option: Atlassian > cancelled > >> > > the > >> > > >>>> > project, and encourages users to migrate to Slack. > >> > > >>>> > > >> > > >>>> > The discussed options so far were: > >> > > >>>> > > >> > > >>>> > - *Moving back to IRC*. Aye: ?; nay: ? > >> > > >>>> > Pros: simple as hell. > >> > > >>>> > Cons: basic as hell; we won't keep the chat history. > >> > > >>>> > - *Migrating to Slack* [6], as suggested by Atlassian > [2]. Aye: > >> > > >>>> > Christian B; Nay: ? > >> > > >>>> > Pros: we will keep the chat history (I think). > >> > > >>>> > Cons: not open-source; desktop client consumes a lot of > >> > > resources. > >> > > >>>> > - *Migrating to Zulip* [3]. Aye: Emmanuel, Yoann. Nay: > Guillaume > >> > > >>>> (kind > >> > > >>>> > of). > >> > > >>>> > Pros: Advanced conversation management thanks to the > "topics" > >> > > >>>> feature. > >> > > >>>> > Cons: Complex to use because of the "topics" feature; we > won't > >> > > >>>> keep the > >> > > >>>> > chat history (1). > >> > > >>>> > - *Migrating to Gitter* [5] (we'll create different rooms, > >> > > >>>> probably). > >> > > >>>> > Aye: ?, Nay: ? > >> > > >>>> > Pros: Users seem to actually go there, so we could have > our "live > >> > > >>>> > support" rooms next to our "internal discussion" rooms. > >> > > >>>> > Cons: not open-source; we won't keep the chat history (1). > >> > > >>>> > > >> > > >>>> > I created a poll based on the discussion we had on the thread > >> > > >>>> > "[hibernate-dev] Stride". I think everyone had the time to > suggest > >> > > >>>> another > >> > > >>>> > option. > >> > > >>>> > > >> > > >>>> > Please vote here and now, or remain silent forever ;): > >> > > >>>> > https://doodle.com/poll/h6scc9bsh6a4ymre > >> > > >>>> > > >> > > >>>> > I'd suggest the following rules: if there's a single clear > winner (a > >> > > >>>> > platform that everyone would be happy with), we'll pick that > one. If > >> > > >>>> there > >> > > >>>> > are multiple clear winners, whoever does the migration work > will > >> > > pick > >> > > >>>> > what's easier to set up (taking into account the various > >> > > >>>> integrations). > >> > > >>>> > Otherwise, back to discussing it on this thread... > >> > > >>>> > > >> > > >>>> > (1) There seems to be some work in progress on a migration > tool from > >> > > >>>> > HipChat to Zulip, but it doesn't seem to be ready yet [4] > >> > > >>>> > > >> > > >>>> > [1] > >> > > >>>> > > >> > > >>>> > >> > > > https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/faq#faq-da2b66a1-53d3-4c4e-a... > >> > > >>>> > [2] https://www.atlassian.com/partnerships/slack/migration > >> > > >>>> > [3] https://hibernate.zulipchat.com/ > >> > > >>>> > [4] https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/10647 > >> > > >>>> > [5] https://gitter.im/hibernate/hibernate-orm > >> > > >>>> > [6] https://slackdemo.com/ > >> > > >>>> > > >> > > >>>> > Yoann Rodière > >> > > >>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team > >> > > >>>> > yoann(a)hibernate.org > >> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >> > > >>>> > hibernate-dev mailing list > >> > > >>>> > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >> > > >>>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >> > > >>>> hibernate-dev mailing list > >> > > >>>> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >> > > >>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > hibernate-dev mailing list > >> > > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > hibernate-dev mailing list > >> > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > _______________________________________________ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack is the way to go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that we'll need to be patient and we'll always be short of some features - if that's not acceptable then only Slack will make you happy.

BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients don't have this specific problem.. might want to try that?

What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub account to join these rooms? I just noticed that is a toggle-option in the room's settings also.

On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; > wrote: > > > If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack is the way to > > go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that we'll need to be > > patient and we'll always be short of some features - if that's not > > acceptable then only Slack will make you happy. > > > > TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for me but yeah not > having sound is really annoying. > > I might miss notifications from time to time. > > In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if you ping me :). > > > > BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients don't have > > this specific problem.. might want to try that? > > > > I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my interactions with > people. > > And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb (and not very excited > about compiling it). > > BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on it if they want to > become a player in this area. They certainly have some work to do to catch > up with others. > > -- > Guillaume > _______________________________________________ > hibernate-dev mailing list > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

I don't see why we should force people to have a GitHub account, considering there are other means of logging into Gitter.

As to getting the right type of people, I'm not sure it's relevant. Most people are likely to have one, and those who don't are likely to not have one for political reasons (think free software extremists) rather than because they aren't tech savvy enough: while the "hibernate" naming might confuse users looking for information about grizzly bears, I doubt my grandmother, my 7-year-old nephew or even my non-software-engineer of a wife would end up on Gitter by mistake.

Yoann Rodière Hibernate NoORM Team yoann(a)hibernate.org On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 18:02, Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 16:02, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > > > > What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub account to join these rooms? I just noticed that is a toggle-option in the room's settings also. > > I don't remember. We created these rooms as an experiment in 2014.. > Yoann created some more rooms recently. > > Should we enforce people to have a Github account? I'd like that, I > think it would better nudge towards getting the right type of people > to join. > > Thanks, > Sanne > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > >> > >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >> wrote: > >> > >> > If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack is the way to > >> > go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that we'll need to be > >> > patient and we'll always be short of some features - if that's not > >> > acceptable then only Slack will make you happy. > >> > > >> > >> TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for me but yeah not > >> having sound is really annoying. > >> > >> I might miss notifications from time to time. > >> > >> In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if you ping me :). > >> > >> > >> > BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients don't have > >> > this specific problem.. might want to try that? > >> > > >> > >> I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my interactions with > >> people. > >> > >> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb (and not very excited > >> about compiling it). > >> > >> BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on it if they want to > >> become a player in this area. They certainly have some work to do to catch > >> up with others. > >> > >> -- > >> Guillaume > >> _______________________________________________ > >> hibernate-dev mailing list > >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > _______________________________________________ > hibernate-dev mailing list > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be too

More just accountability. But if some form of login in needed to use

For me its not so much about "the right kind of people". More just accountability. But if some form of login in needed to use Gitter, that's enough for me. Sounded like the other option was "allow anonymous", which I wanted to avoid. On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:41 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 17:27, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > > > > I don't see why we should force people to have a GitHub account, > considering there are other means of logging into Gitter. > > Ok. > > > > > As to getting the right type of people, I'm not sure it's relevant. > Most people are likely to have one, and those who don't are likely to not > have one for political reasons (think free software extremists) rather than > because they aren't tech savvy enough: while the "hibernate" naming might > confuse users looking for information about grizzly bears, I doubt my > grandmother, my 7-year-old nephew or even my non-software-engineer of a > wife would end up on Gitter by mistake. > > Well since that's obvious, clearly I was referring to a different way > of cathegorizing people joining@ not by age or expertise in technology > but in having reasonable expectations and willing to do some research > before bothering us all. > > You probably weren't around yet, but Hibernate has had hard times in > which it was "victim of its own success": just too many > kinda-interested people making a ton of basic questions that could be > easily solved otherwise. > > Some "barriers" we have in place have made it manageable; of course I > can't tell if it's all merit of the barriers of entry or just people > coming in lower volumes with better intentions, but I'm confident that > some of the barriers we have have helped to keep some sanity (e.g. > login on #hibernate-dev on IRC requiring an account). > > Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be > too successful as well. But I guess we'll see, or let's use a very > bad chat platform so to keep people from coming :P > > > > > > > Yoann Rodière > > Hibernate NoORM Team > > yoann(a)hibernate.org > > > > > > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 18:02, Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; > wrote: > >> > >> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 16:02, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; > wrote: > >> > > >> > What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub account to > join these rooms? I just noticed that is a toggle-option in the room's > settings also. > >> > >> I don't remember. We created these rooms as an experiment in 2014.. > >> Yoann created some more rooms recently. > >> > >> Should we enforce people to have a Github account? I'd like that, I > >> think it would better nudge towards getting the right type of people > >> to join. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Sanne > >> > >> > >> > > >> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet < > guillaume.smet(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > >> >> > >> >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero < > sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack is the way > to > >> >> > go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that we'll need to be > >> >> > patient and we'll always be short of some features - if that's not > >> >> > acceptable then only Slack will make you happy. > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for me but > yeah not > >> >> having sound is really annoying. > >> >> > >> >> I might miss notifications from time to time. > >> >> > >> >> In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if you ping me > :). > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients don't have > >> >> > this specific problem.. might want to try that? > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my > interactions with > >> >> people. > >> >> > >> >> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb (and not very > excited > >> >> about compiling it). > >> >> > >> >> BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on it if they > want to > >> >> become a player in this area. They certainly have some work to do > to catch > >> >> up with others. > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Guillaume > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> hibernate-dev mailing list > >> >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >> _______________________________________________ > >> hibernate-dev mailing list > >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev >

On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 08:49, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > > Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be > too successful as well > > Ok. Well, I guess we'll see. As I mentioned above, I don't think forcing > people to have a GitHub account will be very effective, but I can't suggest > a perfect solution either. Bots answering with a few links (documentation, > etc.) to the first message of each user come to mind, but that could be > considered rude, so I wouldn't do that unless the traffic becomes > unmanageable. Other solutions include kicking out "spammers" (but that > doesn't work if it's many users asking a single question), or making the > -dev rooms invite-only and only checking the user rooms once in a while > (might work if Gitter sends emails when your are mentioned while offline). > So, yeah, in short: I don't really know. > > > More just accountability. But if some form of login in needed to use > Gitter, that's enough for me. Sounded like the other option was "allow > anonymous", which I wanted to avoid. > > Then it should be fine: anonymous access apparently only allows to read > messages. Login through GitLab, GitHub or Twitter is necessary in order to > start posting new messages. > > Yoann Rodière > Hibernate NoORM Team > yoann(a)hibernate.org > > > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 19:34, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > >> For me its not so much about "the right kind of people". More just >> accountability. But if some form of login in needed to use Gitter, that's >> enough for me. Sounded like the other option was "allow anonymous", which >> I wanted to avoid. >> >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:41 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; >> wrote: >> >>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 17:27, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > I don't see why we should force people to have a GitHub account, >>> considering there are other means of logging into Gitter. >>> >>> Ok. >>> >>> > >>> > As to getting the right type of people, I'm not sure it's relevant. >>> Most people are likely to have one, and those who don't are likely to not >>> have one for political reasons (think free software extremists) rather than >>> because they aren't tech savvy enough: while the "hibernate" naming might >>> confuse users looking for information about grizzly bears, I doubt my >>> grandmother, my 7-year-old nephew or even my non-software-engineer of a >>> wife would end up on Gitter by mistake. >>> >>> Well since that's obvious, clearly I was referring to a different way >>> of cathegorizing people joining@ not by age or expertise in technology >>> but in having reasonable expectations and willing to do some research >>> before bothering us all. >>> >>> You probably weren't around yet, but Hibernate has had hard times in >>> which it was "victim of its own success": just too many >>> kinda-interested people making a ton of basic questions that could be >>> easily solved otherwise. >>> >>> Some "barriers" we have in place have made it manageable; of course I >>> can't tell if it's all merit of the barriers of entry or just people >>> coming in lower volumes with better intentions, but I'm confident that >>> some of the barriers we have have helped to keep some sanity (e.g. >>> login on #hibernate-dev on IRC requiring an account). >>> >>> Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be >>> too successful as well. But I guess we'll see, or let's use a very >>> bad chat platform so to keep people from coming :P >>> >>> > >>> > >>> > Yoann Rodière >>> > Hibernate NoORM Team >>> > yoann(a)hibernate.org >>> > >>> > >>> > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 18:02, Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 16:02, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; >>> wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> > What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub account to >>> join these rooms? I just noticed that is a toggle-option in the room's >>> settings also. >>> >> >>> >> I don't remember. We created these rooms as an experiment in 2014.. >>> >> Yoann created some more rooms recently. >>> >> >>> >> Should we enforce people to have a Github account? I'd like that, I >>> >> think it would better nudge towards getting the right type of people >>> >> to join. >>> >> >>> >> Thanks, >>> >> Sanne >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet < >>> guillaume.smet(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero < >>> sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; >>> >> >> wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> > If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack is the >>> way to >>> >> >> > go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that we'll need to >>> be >>> >> >> > patient and we'll always be short of some features - if that's >>> not >>> >> >> > acceptable then only Slack will make you happy. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for me but >>> yeah not >>> >> >> having sound is really annoying. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I might miss notifications from time to time. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if you ping >>> me :). >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> > BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients don't >>> have >>> >> >> > this specific problem.. might want to try that? >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my >>> interactions with >>> >> >> people. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb (and not >>> very excited >>> >> >> about compiling it). >>> >> >> >>> >> >> BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on it if they >>> want to >>> >> >> become a player in this area. They certainly have some work to do >>> to catch >>> >> >> up with others. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> -- >>> >> >> Guillaume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >> hibernate-dev mailing list >>> >> >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >>> >> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> hibernate-dev mailing list >>> >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev >>> >>

The WildFly team is moving from Slack to Zulip, because Zulip seems to be the only solution that is free, provides unlimited history, and allows unlimited users even in private rooms (for OSS projects, at least). Gitter has all that, except unlimited users, as we are limited to 25 people per private room. You can join them here: https://wildfly.zulipchat.com/ Back to our solution... We are now 71 days away from the decommissioning of HipChat. *Is everyone happy with Gitter?* Do you see a strong reason to keep looking for another solution? For my part, I noticed problems with the web client, in particular with notifications, which are sub-standard, but with the desktop client everything seems to work fine. It's simple, but it does the job. Yoann Rodière Hibernate NoORM Team yoann(a)hibernate.org On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 at 14:40, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > On top of not being able to add more than 25 people to a private room, > there's another limitation of Gitter that Fabio just noticed: the chat > history for 1-to-1 conversations is very limited. In our case, we can only > see 2 days back, and there's no concept of archives like there is in rooms. > > Meanwhile, the WildFly team is giving up on Slack because of the very > limited size of history in free plans. They are investigating Zulip, > RocketChat and MatterMost in particular. Maybe let's see what they end up > choosing and why? > > Yoann Rodière > Hibernate NoORM Team > yoann(a)hibernate.org > > > On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 11:33, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > >> On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 08:49, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: >> >>>> Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be >>> too successful as well >>> >>> Ok. Well, I guess we'll see. As I mentioned above, I don't think forcing >>> people to have a GitHub account will be very effective, but I can't suggest >>> a perfect solution either. Bots answering with a few links (documentation, >>> etc.) to the first message of each user come to mind, but that could be >>> considered rude, so I wouldn't do that unless the traffic becomes >>> unmanageable. Other solutions include kicking out "spammers" (but that >>> doesn't work if it's many users asking a single question), or making the >>> -dev rooms invite-only and only checking the user rooms once in a while >>> (might work if Gitter sends emails when your are mentioned while offline). >>> So, yeah, in short: I don't really know. >>> >>>> More just accountability. But if some form of login in needed to use >>> Gitter, that's enough for me. Sounded like the other option was "allow >>> anonymous", which I wanted to avoid. >>> >>> Then it should be fine: anonymous access apparently only allows to read >>> messages. Login through GitLab, GitHub or Twitter is necessary in order to >>> start posting new messages. >>> >>> Yoann Rodière >>> Hibernate NoORM Team >>> yoann(a)hibernate.org >>> >>> >>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 19:34, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; >>> wrote: >>> >>>> For me its not so much about "the right kind of people". More just >>>> accountability. But if some form of login in needed to use Gitter, that's >>>> enough for me. Sounded like the other option was "allow anonymous", which >>>> I wanted to avoid. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:41 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 17:27, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> I don't see why we should force people to have a GitHub account, >>>>> considering there are other means of logging into Gitter. >>>>> >>>>> Ok. >>>>> >>>>>> As to getting the right type of people, I'm not sure it's relevant. >>>>> Most people are likely to have one, and those who don't are likely to not >>>>> have one for political reasons (think free software extremists) rather than >>>>> because they aren't tech savvy enough: while the "hibernate" naming might >>>>> confuse users looking for information about grizzly bears, I doubt my >>>>> grandmother, my 7-year-old nephew or even my non-software-engineer of a >>>>> wife would end up on Gitter by mistake. >>>>> >>>>> Well since that's obvious, clearly I was referring to a different way >>>>> of cathegorizing people joining@ not by age or expertise in technology >>>>> but in having reasonable expectations and willing to do some research >>>>> before bothering us all. >>>>> >>>>> You probably weren't around yet, but Hibernate has had hard times in >>>>> which it was "victim of its own success": just too many >>>>> kinda-interested people making a ton of basic questions that could be >>>>> easily solved otherwise. >>>>> >>>>> Some "barriers" we have in place have made it manageable; of course I >>>>> can't tell if it's all merit of the barriers of entry or just people >>>>> coming in lower volumes with better intentions, but I'm confident that >>>>> some of the barriers we have have helped to keep some sanity (e.g. >>>>> login on #hibernate-dev on IRC requiring an account). >>>>> >>>>> Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be >>>>> too successful as well. But I guess we'll see, or let's use a very >>>>> bad chat platform so to keep people from coming :P >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yoann Rodière >>>>>> Hibernate NoORM Team >>>>>> yoann(a)hibernate.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 18:02, Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 16:02, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub account >>>>> to join these rooms? I just noticed that is a toggle-option in the room's >>>>> settings also. >>>>>>> I don't remember. We created these rooms as an experiment in 2014.. >>>>>>> Yoann created some more rooms recently. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Should we enforce people to have a Github account? I'd like that, I >>>>>>> think it would better nudge towards getting the right type of people >>>>>>> to join. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Sanne >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet < >>>>> guillaume.smet(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero < >>>>> sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack is the >>>>> way to >>>>>>>>>> go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that we'll need >>>>> to be >>>>>>>>>> patient and we'll always be short of some features - if that's >>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> acceptable then only Slack will make you happy. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for me but >>>>> yeah not >>>>>>>>> having sound is really annoying. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I might miss notifications from time to time. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if you ping >>>>> me :). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients don't >>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> this specific problem.. might want to try that? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my >>>>> interactions with >>>>>>>>> people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb (and not >>>>> very excited >>>>>>>>> about compiling it). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on it if >>>>> they want to >>>>>>>>> become a player in this area. They certainly have some work to >>>>> do to catch >>>>>>>>> up with others. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Guillaume >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> hibernate-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> hibernate-dev mailing list >>>>>>> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev _______________________________________________ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

You also need to use ctrl+enter to send a message, the default enter is a

So, I'm using Zulip right now on a daily basis. I maintain my first impression that it's really not user friendly. The fact that you are required to create topics for discussions (or find a suitable topic in a list of a gazillion topics previously created, obviously without a search engine where you need it - you have a global one at the top where you can find topics) is a pain. You also need to use ctrl+enter to send a message, the default enter is a new line in your message. The UI is not very good and I don't see any improvement since the last time I tested it so I'm wondering if they are investing in it. We could decide to use it as a dev team as I suppose we would get used to it, but I seriously don't think it's a good alternative for our users to occasionally come chat with us. As for Gitter, I agree with the notification issue, the web client is all buggy. Haven't tested the desktop client yet. I must admit that I prefer using Gitter. Probably until I get bitten by the 1-1 history issue :). From what I can see, GitLab doesn't invest much in Gitter either so I wonder if it's gonna be viable in the long term. I suppose we'll see. -- Guillaume On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 8:58 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > The WildFly team is moving from Slack to Zulip, because Zulip seems to be > the only solution that is free, provides unlimited history, and allows > unlimited users even in private rooms (for OSS projects, at least). Gitter > has all that, except unlimited users, as we are limited to 25 people per > private room. > > You can join them here: https://wildfly.zulipchat.com/ > > Back to our solution... We are now 71 days away from the decommissioning > of > HipChat. *Is everyone happy with Gitter?* Do you see a strong reason to > keep looking for another solution? > > For my part, I noticed problems with the web client, in particular with > notifications, which are sub-standard, but with the desktop client > everything seems to work fine. It's simple, but it does the job. > > Yoann Rodière > Hibernate NoORM Team > yoann(a)hibernate.org > > > On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 at 14:40, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > > > On top of not being able to add more than 25 people to a private room, > > there's another limitation of Gitter that Fabio just noticed: the chat > > history for 1-to-1 conversations is very limited. In our case, we can > only > > see 2 days back, and there's no concept of archives like there is in > rooms. > > > > Meanwhile, the WildFly team is giving up on Slack because of the very > > limited size of history in free plans. They are investigating Zulip, > > RocketChat and MatterMost in particular. Maybe let's see what they end > up > > choosing and why? > > > > Yoann Rodière > > Hibernate NoORM Team > > yoann(a)hibernate.org > > > > > > On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 11:33, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; > wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 08:49, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; > wrote: > >> > >>> > Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be > >>> too successful as well > >>> > >>> Ok. Well, I guess we'll see. As I mentioned above, I don't think > forcing > >>> people to have a GitHub account will be very effective, but I can't > suggest > >>> a perfect solution either. Bots answering with a few links > (documentation, > >>> etc.) to the first message of each user come to mind, but that could > be > >>> considered rude, so I wouldn't do that unless the traffic becomes > >>> unmanageable. Other solutions include kicking out "spammers" (but that > >>> doesn't work if it's many users asking a single question), or making > the > >>> -dev rooms invite-only and only checking the user rooms once in a > while > >>> (might work if Gitter sends emails when your are mentioned while > offline). > >>> So, yeah, in short: I don't really know. > >>> > >>> > More just accountability. But if some form of login in needed to > use > >>> Gitter, that's enough for me. Sounded like the other option was > "allow > >>> anonymous", which I wanted to avoid. > >>> > >>> Then it should be fine: anonymous access apparently only allows to > read > >>> messages. Login through GitLab, GitHub or Twitter is necessary in > order to > >>> start posting new messages. > >>> > >>> Yoann Rodière > >>> Hibernate NoORM Team > >>> yoann(a)hibernate.org > >>> > >>> > >>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 19:34, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> For me its not so much about "the right kind of people". More just > >>>> accountability. But if some form of login in needed to use Gitter, > that's > >>>> enough for me. Sounded like the other option was "allow anonymous", > which > >>>> I wanted to avoid. > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:41 AM Sanne Grinovero < > sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 17:27, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > > >>>>> > I don't see why we should force people to have a GitHub account, > >>>>> considering there are other means of logging into Gitter. > >>>>> > >>>>> Ok. > >>>>> > >>>>> > > >>>>> > As to getting the right type of people, I'm not sure it's > relevant. > >>>>> Most people are likely to have one, and those who don't are likely > to not > >>>>> have one for political reasons (think free software extremists) > rather than > >>>>> because they aren't tech savvy enough: while the "hibernate" naming > might > >>>>> confuse users looking for information about grizzly bears, I doubt > my > >>>>> grandmother, my 7-year-old nephew or even my non-software-engineer > of a > >>>>> wife would end up on Gitter by mistake. > >>>>> > >>>>> Well since that's obvious, clearly I was referring to a different > way > >>>>> of cathegorizing people joining@ not by age or expertise in > technology > >>>>> but in having reasonable expectations and willing to do some > research > >>>>> before bothering us all. > >>>>> > >>>>> You probably weren't around yet, but Hibernate has had hard times in > >>>>> which it was "victim of its own success": just too many > >>>>> kinda-interested people making a ton of basic questions that could > be > >>>>> easily solved otherwise. > >>>>> > >>>>> Some "barriers" we have in place have made it manageable; of course > I > >>>>> can't tell if it's all merit of the barriers of entry or just people > >>>>> coming in lower volumes with better intentions, but I'm confident > that > >>>>> some of the barriers we have have helped to keep some sanity (e.g. > >>>>> login on #hibernate-dev on IRC requiring an account). > >>>>> > >>>>> Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be > >>>>> too successful as well. But I guess we'll see, or let's use a very > >>>>> bad chat platform so to keep people from coming :P > >>>>> > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Yoann Rodière > >>>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team > >>>>> > yoann(a)hibernate.org > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 18:02, Sanne Grinovero < > sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 16:02, Steve Ebersole < > steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub account > >>>>> to join these rooms? I just noticed that is a toggle-option in the > room's > >>>>> settings also. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> I don't remember. We created these rooms as an experiment in > 2014.. > >>>>> >> Yoann created some more rooms recently. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Should we enforce people to have a Github account? I'd like > that, I > >>>>> >> think it would better nudge towards getting the right type of > people > >>>>> >> to join. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Thanks, > >>>>> >> Sanne > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet < > >>>>> guillaume.smet(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero < > >>>>> sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >>>>> >> >> wrote: > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> > If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack is > the > >>>>> way to > >>>>> >> >> > go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that we'll need > >>>>> to be > >>>>> >> >> > patient and we'll always be short of some features - if > that's > >>>>> not > >>>>> >> >> > acceptable then only Slack will make you happy. > >>>>> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for me > but > >>>>> yeah not > >>>>> >> >> having sound is really annoying. > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> I might miss notifications from time to time. > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if you > ping > >>>>> me :). > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> > BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients > don't > >>>>> have > >>>>> >> >> > this specific problem.. might want to try that? > >>>>> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my > >>>>> interactions with > >>>>> >> >> people. > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb (and not > >>>>> very excited > >>>>> >> >> about compiling it). > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on it if > >>>>> they want to > >>>>> >> >> become a player in this area. They certainly have some work to > >>>>> do to catch > >>>>> >> >> up with others. > >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> -- > >>>>> >> >> Guillaume > >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> >> >> hibernate-dev mailing list > >>>>> >> >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >>>>> >> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> >> hibernate-dev mailing list > >>>>> >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >>>>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >>>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > hibernate-dev mailing list > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

> You also need to use ctrl+enter to send a message, the default enter is a new line in your message There's a checkbox to change that, and its value is persisted, so you only have to tick it once. It's located just beside the "Send" button, I'm sure you saw it :) But apart from that, yes, I agree it's not very user-friendly. It's more about the user getting used to the tool than the tool being made obvious from the start. I'm also unsure how long Gitter will continue to be maintained, and how well it will be. But we're mostly done migrating to Gitter; I don't see much activity on HipChat anymore.

Objectively, and regardless of my preferred tool, the main drawback I can see about not moving to Zulip (or another tool) now, but only later, is the confusion it will potentially create for users: we were on HipChat, announced we were moving to Gitter and changed the links on our website, and a few months later we move again. That is, I think, something we want to avoid. So the question really is: is Gitter the right tool for us, and do we trust it to stay the right tool for us long enough (say, at least a couple of years)? Yoann Rodière Hibernate NoORM Team yoann(a)hibernate.org On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 10:41, Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > So, I'm using Zulip right now on a daily basis. > > I maintain my first impression that it's really not user friendly. > > The fact that you are required to create topics for discussions (or find a > suitable topic in a list of a gazillion topics previously created, > obviously without a search engine where you need it - you have a global one > at the top where you can find topics) is a pain. You also need to use > ctrl+enter to send a message, the default enter is a new line in your > message. The UI is not very good and I don't see any improvement since the > last time I tested it so I'm wondering if they are investing in it. > > We could decide to use it as a dev team as I suppose we would get used to > it, but I seriously don't think it's a good alternative for our users to > occasionally come chat with us. > > As for Gitter, I agree with the notification issue, the web client is all > buggy. Haven't tested the desktop client yet. > > I must admit that I prefer using Gitter. Probably until I get bitten by > the 1-1 history issue :). > > From what I can see, GitLab doesn't invest much in Gitter either so I > wonder if it's gonna be viable in the long term. > > I suppose we'll see. > > -- > Guillaume > > On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 8:58 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > >> The WildFly team is moving from Slack to Zulip, because Zulip seems to be >> the only solution that is free, provides unlimited history, and allows >> unlimited users even in private rooms (for OSS projects, at least). Gitter >> has all that, except unlimited users, as we are limited to 25 people per >> private room. >> >> You can join them here: https://wildfly.zulipchat.com/ >> >> Back to our solution... We are now 71 days away from the decommissioning >> of >> HipChat. *Is everyone happy with Gitter?* Do you see a strong reason to >> keep looking for another solution? >> >> For my part, I noticed problems with the web client, in particular with >> notifications, which are sub-standard, but with the desktop client >> everything seems to work fine. It's simple, but it does the job. >> >> Yoann Rodière >> Hibernate NoORM Team >> yoann(a)hibernate.org >> >> >> On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 at 14:40, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: >> >> > On top of not being able to add more than 25 people to a private room, >> > there's another limitation of Gitter that Fabio just noticed: the chat >> > history for 1-to-1 conversations is very limited. In our case, we can >> only >> > see 2 days back, and there's no concept of archives like there is in >> rooms. >> > >> > Meanwhile, the WildFly team is giving up on Slack because of the very >> > limited size of history in free plans. They are investigating Zulip, >> > RocketChat and MatterMost in particular. Maybe let's see what they end >> up >> > choosing and why? >> > >> > Yoann Rodière >> > Hibernate NoORM Team >> > yoann(a)hibernate.org >> > >> > >> > On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 11:33, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; >> wrote: >> > >> >> On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 08:49, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> > Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be >> >>> too successful as well >> >>> >> >>> Ok. Well, I guess we'll see. As I mentioned above, I don't think >> forcing >> >>> people to have a GitHub account will be very effective, but I can't >> suggest >> >>> a perfect solution either. Bots answering with a few links >> (documentation, >> >>> etc.) to the first message of each user come to mind, but that could >> be >> >>> considered rude, so I wouldn't do that unless the traffic becomes >> >>> unmanageable. Other solutions include kicking out "spammers" (but that >> >>> doesn't work if it's many users asking a single question), or making >> the >> >>> -dev rooms invite-only and only checking the user rooms once in a >> while >> >>> (might work if Gitter sends emails when your are mentioned while >> offline). >> >>> So, yeah, in short: I don't really know. >> >>> >> >>> > More just accountability. But if some form of login in needed to >> use >> >>> Gitter, that's enough for me. Sounded like the other option was >> "allow >> >>> anonymous", which I wanted to avoid. >> >>> >> >>> Then it should be fine: anonymous access apparently only allows to >> read >> >>> messages. Login through GitLab, GitHub or Twitter is necessary in >> order to >> >>> start posting new messages. >> >>> >> >>> Yoann Rodière >> >>> Hibernate NoORM Team >> >>> yoann(a)hibernate.org >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 19:34, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> For me its not so much about "the right kind of people". More just >> >>>> accountability. But if some form of login in needed to use Gitter, >> that's >> >>>> enough for me. Sounded like the other option was "allow anonymous", >> which >> >>>> I wanted to avoid. >> >>>> >> >>>> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:41 AM Sanne Grinovero < >> sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 17:27, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; >> >>>>> wrote: >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > I don't see why we should force people to have a GitHub account, >> >>>>> considering there are other means of logging into Gitter. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Ok. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > As to getting the right type of people, I'm not sure it's >> relevant. >> >>>>> Most people are likely to have one, and those who don't are likely >> to not >> >>>>> have one for political reasons (think free software extremists) >> rather than >> >>>>> because they aren't tech savvy enough: while the "hibernate" naming >> might >> >>>>> confuse users looking for information about grizzly bears, I doubt >> my >> >>>>> grandmother, my 7-year-old nephew or even my non-software-engineer >> of a >> >>>>> wife would end up on Gitter by mistake. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Well since that's obvious, clearly I was referring to a different >> way >> >>>>> of cathegorizing people joining@ not by age or expertise in >> technology >> >>>>> but in having reasonable expectations and willing to do some >> research >> >>>>> before bothering us all. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> You probably weren't around yet, but Hibernate has had hard times in >> >>>>> which it was "victim of its own success": just too many >> >>>>> kinda-interested people making a ton of basic questions that could >> be >> >>>>> easily solved otherwise. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Some "barriers" we have in place have made it manageable; of course >> I >> >>>>> can't tell if it's all merit of the barriers of entry or just people >> >>>>> coming in lower volumes with better intentions, but I'm confident >> that >> >>>>> some of the barriers we have have helped to keep some sanity (e.g. >> >>>>> login on #hibernate-dev on IRC requiring an account). >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it might be >> >>>>> too successful as well. But I guess we'll see, or let's use a very >> >>>>> bad chat platform so to keep people from coming :P >> >>>>> >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > Yoann Rodière >> >>>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team >> >>>>> > yoann(a)hibernate.org >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 18:02, Sanne Grinovero < >> sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; >> >>>>> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 16:02, Steve Ebersole < >> steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; >> >>>>> wrote: >> >>>>> >> > >> >>>>> >> > What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub account >> >>>>> to join these rooms? I just noticed that is a toggle-option in the >> room's >> >>>>> settings also. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> I don't remember. We created these rooms as an experiment in >> 2014.. >> >>>>> >> Yoann created some more rooms recently. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> Should we enforce people to have a Github account? I'd like >> that, I >> >>>>> >> think it would better nudge towards getting the right type of >> people >> >>>>> >> to join. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> Thanks, >> >>>>> >> Sanne >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> > >> >>>>> >> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet < >> >>>>> guillaume.smet(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero < >> >>>>> sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; >> >>>>> >> >> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> > If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack is >> the >> >>>>> way to >> >>>>> >> >> > go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that we'll need >> >>>>> to be >> >>>>> >> >> > patient and we'll always be short of some features - if >> that's >> >>>>> not >> >>>>> >> >> > acceptable then only Slack will make you happy. >> >>>>> >> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for me >> but >> >>>>> yeah not >> >>>>> >> >> having sound is really annoying. >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> I might miss notifications from time to time. >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if you >> ping >> >>>>> me :). >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> > BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients >> don't >> >>>>> have >> >>>>> >> >> > this specific problem.. might want to try that? >> >>>>> >> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my >> >>>>> interactions with >> >>>>> >> >> people. >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb (and not >> >>>>> very excited >> >>>>> >> >> about compiling it). >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on it if >> >>>>> they want to >> >>>>> >> >> become a player in this area. They certainly have some work to >> >>>>> do to catch >> >>>>> >> >> up with others. >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> -- >> >>>>> >> >> Guillaume >> >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> >> >> hibernate-dev mailing list >> >>>>> >> >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >> >>>>> >> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> >> hibernate-dev mailing list >> >>>>> >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >> >>>>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> hibernate-dev mailing list >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > _______________________________________________ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

Hey wait a second :) You invited us to try Gitter. That's fine but we never decided we're migrating to Gitter.

I am never on HipChat at this point. So don't expect any important matters to be discussed there ;) On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 9:08 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 10:25, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > > > > > You also need to use ctrl+enter to send a message, the default enter > is a > > new line in your message > > > > There's a checkbox to change that, and its value is persisted, so you > only > > have to tick it once. It's located just beside the "Send" button, I'm > sure > > you saw it :) > > But apart from that, yes, I agree it's not very user-friendly. It's more > > about the user getting used to the tool than the tool being made obvious > > from the start. > > > > I'm also unsure how long Gitter will continue to be maintained, and how > > well it will be. But we're mostly done migrating to Gitter; I don't see > > much activity on HipChat anymore. > > Hey wait a second :) You invited us to try Gitter. That's fine but we > never decided we're migrating to Gitter. > > I'm certainly not on Gitter regularly nor right now, so I'm expecting > any important matter to be discussed on mailing lists or HipChat. > > > > > Objectively, and regardless of my preferred tool, the main drawback I > can > > see about not moving to Zulip (or another tool) now, but only later, is > the > > confusion it will potentially create for users: we were on HipChat, > > announced we were moving to Gitter and changed the links on our website, > > and a few months later we move again. That is, I think, something we > want > > to avoid. > > > > So the question really is: is Gitter the right tool for us, and do we > trust > > it to stay the right tool for us long enough (say, at least a couple of > > years)? > > > > Yoann Rodière > > Hibernate NoORM Team > > yoann(a)hibernate.org > > > > > > On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 10:41, Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet(a)gmail.com&gt; > > wrote: > > > > > So, I'm using Zulip right now on a daily basis. > > > > > > I maintain my first impression that it's really not user friendly. > > > > > > The fact that you are required to create topics for discussions (or > find a > > > suitable topic in a list of a gazillion topics previously created, > > > obviously without a search engine where you need it - you have a > global one > > > at the top where you can find topics) is a pain. You also need to use > > > ctrl+enter to send a message, the default enter is a new line in your > > > message. The UI is not very good and I don't see any improvement > since the > > > last time I tested it so I'm wondering if they are investing in it. > > > > > > We could decide to use it as a dev team as I suppose we would get > used to > > > it, but I seriously don't think it's a good alternative for our users > to > > > occasionally come chat with us. > > > > > > As for Gitter, I agree with the notification issue, the web client is > all > > > buggy. Haven't tested the desktop client yet. > > > > > > I must admit that I prefer using Gitter. Probably until I get bitten > by > > > the 1-1 history issue :). > > > > > > From what I can see, GitLab doesn't invest much in Gitter either so I > > > wonder if it's gonna be viable in the long term. > > > > > > I suppose we'll see. > > > > > > -- > > > Guillaume > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 8:58 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; > wrote: > > > > > >> The WildFly team is moving from Slack to Zulip, because Zulip seems > to be > > >> the only solution that is free, provides unlimited history, and > allows > > >> unlimited users even in private rooms (for OSS projects, at least). > Gitter > > >> has all that, except unlimited users, as we are limited to 25 people > per > > >> private room. > > >> > > >> You can join them here: https://wildfly.zulipchat.com/ > > >> > > >> Back to our solution... We are now 71 days away from the > decommissioning > > >> of > > >> HipChat. *Is everyone happy with Gitter?* Do you see a strong reason > to > > >> keep looking for another solution? > > >> > > >> For my part, I noticed problems with the web client, in particular > with > > >> notifications, which are sub-standard, but with the desktop client > > >> everything seems to work fine. It's simple, but it does the job. > > >> > > >> Yoann Rodière > > >> Hibernate NoORM Team > > >> yoann(a)hibernate.org > > >> > > >> > > >> On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 at 14:40, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; > wrote: > > >> > > >> > On top of not being able to add more than 25 people to a private > room, > > >> > there's another limitation of Gitter that Fabio just noticed: the > chat > > >> > history for 1-to-1 conversations is very limited. In our case, we > can > > >> only > > >> > see 2 days back, and there's no concept of archives like there is > in > > >> rooms. > > >> > > > >> > Meanwhile, the WildFly team is giving up on Slack because of the > very > > >> > limited size of history in free plans. They are investigating > Zulip, > > >> > RocketChat and MatterMost in particular. Maybe let's see what they > end > > >> up > > >> > choosing and why? > > >> > > > >> > Yoann Rodière > > >> > Hibernate NoORM Team > > >> > yoann(a)hibernate.org > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 11:33, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > >> >> On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 08:49, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; > > >> wrote: > > >> >> > > >> >>> > Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it > might be > > >> >>> too successful as well > > >> >>> > > >> >>> Ok. Well, I guess we'll see. As I mentioned above, I don't think > > >> forcing > > >> >>> people to have a GitHub account will be very effective, but I > can't > > >> suggest > > >> >>> a perfect solution either. Bots answering with a few links > > >> (documentation, > > >> >>> etc.) to the first message of each user come to mind, but that > could > > >> be > > >> >>> considered rude, so I wouldn't do that unless the traffic becomes > > >> >>> unmanageable. Other solutions include kicking out "spammers" > (but that > > >> >>> doesn't work if it's many users asking a single question), or > making > > >> the > > >> >>> -dev rooms invite-only and only checking the user rooms once in a > > >> while > > >> >>> (might work if Gitter sends emails when your are mentioned while > > >> offline). > > >> >>> So, yeah, in short: I don't really know. > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > More just accountability. But if some form of login in needed > to > > >> use > > >> >>> Gitter, that's enough for me. Sounded like the other option was > > >> "allow > > >> >>> anonymous", which I wanted to avoid. > > >> >>> > > >> >>> Then it should be fine: anonymous access apparently only allows > to > > >> read > > >> >>> messages. Login through GitLab, GitHub or Twitter is necessary in > > >> order to > > >> >>> start posting new messages. > > >> >>> > > >> >>> Yoann Rodière > > >> >>> Hibernate NoORM Team > > >> >>> yoann(a)hibernate.org > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 19:34, Steve Ebersole < > steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; > > >> >>> wrote: > > >> >>> > > >> >>>> For me its not so much about "the right kind of people". More > just > > >> >>>> accountability. But if some form of login in needed to use > Gitter, > > >> that's > > >> >>>> enough for me. Sounded like the other option was "allow > anonymous", > > >> which > > >> >>>> I wanted to avoid. > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:41 AM Sanne Grinovero < > > >> sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; > > >> >>>> wrote: > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 17:27, Yoann Rodiere < > yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; > > >> >>>>> wrote: > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> > I don't see why we should force people to have a GitHub > account, > > >> >>>>> considering there are other means of logging into Gitter. > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> Ok. > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> > As to getting the right type of people, I'm not sure it's > > >> relevant. > > >> >>>>> Most people are likely to have one, and those who don't are > likely > > >> to not > > >> >>>>> have one for political reasons (think free software extremists) > > >> rather than > > >> >>>>> because they aren't tech savvy enough: while the "hibernate" > naming > > >> might > > >> >>>>> confuse users looking for information about grizzly bears, I > doubt > > >> my > > >> >>>>> grandmother, my 7-year-old nephew or even my > non-software-engineer > > >> of a > > >> >>>>> wife would end up on Gitter by mistake. > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> Well since that's obvious, clearly I was referring to a > different > > >> way > > >> >>>>> of cathegorizing people joining@ not by age or expertise in > > >> technology > > >> >>>>> but in having reasonable expectations and willing to do some > > >> research > > >> >>>>> before bothering us all. > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> You probably weren't around yet, but Hibernate has had hard > times in > > >> >>>>> which it was "victim of its own success": just too many > > >> >>>>> kinda-interested people making a ton of basic questions that > could > > >> be > > >> >>>>> easily solved otherwise. > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> Some "barriers" we have in place have made it manageable; of > course > > >> I > > >> >>>>> can't tell if it's all merit of the barriers of entry or just > people > > >> >>>>> coming in lower volumes with better intentions, but I'm > confident > > >> that > > >> >>>>> some of the barriers we have have helped to keep some sanity > (e.g. > > >> >>>>> login on #hibernate-dev on IRC requiring an account). > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it > might be > > >> >>>>> too successful as well. But I guess we'll see, or let's use a > very > > >> >>>>> bad chat platform so to keep people from coming :P > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> > Yoann Rodière > > >> >>>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team > > >> >>>>> > yoann(a)hibernate.org > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> > > > >> >>>>> > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 18:02, Sanne Grinovero < > > >> sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; > > >> >>>>> wrote: > > >> >>>>> >> > > >> >>>>> >> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 16:02, Steve Ebersole < > > >> steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; > > >> >>>>> wrote: > > >> >>>>> >> > > > >> >>>>> >> > What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub > account > > >> >>>>> to join these rooms? I just noticed that is a toggle-option > in the > > >> room's > > >> >>>>> settings also. > > >> >>>>> >> > > >> >>>>> >> I don't remember. We created these rooms as an experiment in > > >> 2014.. > > >> >>>>> >> Yoann created some more rooms recently. > > >> >>>>> >> > > >> >>>>> >> Should we enforce people to have a Github account? I'd like > > >> that, I > > >> >>>>> >> think it would better nudge towards getting the right type > of > > >> people > > >> >>>>> >> to join. > > >> >>>>> >> > > >> >>>>> >> Thanks, > > >> >>>>> >> Sanne > > >> >>>>> >> > > >> >>>>> >> > > >> >>>>> >> > > > >> >>>>> >> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet < > > >> >>>>> guillaume.smet(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> >>>>> >> >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero < > > >> >>>>> sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; > > >> >>>>> >> >> wrote: > > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> >>>>> >> >> > If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack > is > > >> the > > >> >>>>> way to > > >> >>>>> >> >> > go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that > we'll need > > >> >>>>> to be > > >> >>>>> >> >> > patient and we'll always be short of some features - if > > >> that's > > >> >>>>> not > > >> >>>>> >> >> > acceptable then only Slack will make you happy. > > >> >>>>> >> >> > > > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> >>>>> >> >> TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for > me > > >> but > > >> >>>>> yeah not > > >> >>>>> >> >> having sound is really annoying. > > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> >>>>> >> >> I might miss notifications from time to time. > > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> >>>>> >> >> In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if > you > > >> ping > > >> >>>>> me :). > > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> >>>>> >> >> > BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients > > >> don't > > >> >>>>> have > > >> >>>>> >> >> > this specific problem.. might want to try that? > > >> >>>>> >> >> > > > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> >>>>> >> >> I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my > > >> >>>>> interactions with > > >> >>>>> >> >> people. > > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> >>>>> >> >> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb > (and not > > >> >>>>> very excited > > >> >>>>> >> >> about compiling it). > > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> >>>>> >> >> BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on > it if > > >> >>>>> they want to > > >> >>>>> >> >> become a player in this area. They certainly have some > work to > > >> >>>>> do to catch > > >> >>>>> >> >> up with others. > > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> >>>>> >> >> -- > > >> >>>>> >> >> Guillaume > > >> >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > > >> >>>>> >> >> hibernate-dev mailing list > > >> >>>>> >> >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > > >> >>>>> >> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ > > >> >>>>> >> hibernate-dev mailing list > > >> >>>>> >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > > >> >>>>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> hibernate-dev mailing list > > >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > > >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > hibernate-dev mailing list > > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > _______________________________________________ > hibernate-dev mailing list > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

Does anyone know whether/how I could export all my existing chat logs from HipChat? I'd like to keep a copy esp. of all 1:1 chats I had, if that's possible.

Thanks for any hints, --Gunnar Am Do., 6. Dez. 2018 um 17:03 Uhr schrieb Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt;: > > > Hey wait a second :) You invited us to try Gitter. That's fine but we > > never decided we're migrating to Gitter. > > Sure. What I meant was that we are *de facto* done migrating to gitter. Not > that we meant it, but almost everyone is there already and almost no one is > on HipChat. > > I wouldn't expect important matters to be discussed on Gitter, but then > again I seem to remember someone (who was that? ;) ) telling me to use the > mailing list, and not HipChat, for important matters. So, you should be > fine. > > That being said, even if the decision to migrate was not made, we will have > to make it at some point. So if you want something else, I'd be happy to > hear about that :) > > Yoann Rodière > Hibernate NoORM Team > yoann(a)hibernate.org > > > On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 16:16, Steve Ebersole <steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > > > I am never on HipChat at this point. So don't expect any important > > matters to be discussed there ;) > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 9:08 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; > > wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 10:25, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; wrote: > >> > > >> > > You also need to use ctrl+enter to send a message, the default enter > >> is a > >> > new line in your message > >> > > >> > There's a checkbox to change that, and its value is persisted, so you > >> only > >> > have to tick it once. It's located just beside the "Send" button, I'm > >> sure > >> > you saw it :) > >> > But apart from that, yes, I agree it's not very user-friendly. It's more > >> > about the user getting used to the tool than the tool being made obvious > >> > from the start. > >> > > >> > I'm also unsure how long Gitter will continue to be maintained, and how > >> > well it will be. But we're mostly done migrating to Gitter; I don't see > >> > much activity on HipChat anymore. > >> > >> Hey wait a second :) You invited us to try Gitter. That's fine but we > >> never decided we're migrating to Gitter. > >> > >> I'm certainly not on Gitter regularly nor right now, so I'm expecting > >> any important matter to be discussed on mailing lists or HipChat. > >> > >> > > >> > Objectively, and regardless of my preferred tool, the main drawback I > >> can > >> > see about not moving to Zulip (or another tool) now, but only later, is > >> the > >> > confusion it will potentially create for users: we were on HipChat, > >> > announced we were moving to Gitter and changed the links on our website, > >> > and a few months later we move again. That is, I think, something we > >> want > >> > to avoid. > >> > > >> > So the question really is: is Gitter the right tool for us, and do we > >> trust > >> > it to stay the right tool for us long enough (say, at least a couple of > >> > years)? > >> > > >> > Yoann Rodière > >> > Hibernate NoORM Team > >> > yoann(a)hibernate.org > >> > > >> > > >> > On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 10:41, Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet(a)gmail.com&gt; > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > So, I'm using Zulip right now on a daily basis. > >> > > > >> > > I maintain my first impression that it's really not user friendly. > >> > > > >> > > The fact that you are required to create topics for discussions (or > >> find a > >> > > suitable topic in a list of a gazillion topics previously created, > >> > > obviously without a search engine where you need it - you have a > >> global one > >> > > at the top where you can find topics) is a pain. You also need to use > >> > > ctrl+enter to send a message, the default enter is a new line in your > >> > > message. The UI is not very good and I don't see any improvement > >> since the > >> > > last time I tested it so I'm wondering if they are investing in it. > >> > > > >> > > We could decide to use it as a dev team as I suppose we would get > >> used to > >> > > it, but I seriously don't think it's a good alternative for our users > >> to > >> > > occasionally come chat with us. > >> > > > >> > > As for Gitter, I agree with the notification issue, the web client is > >> all > >> > > buggy. Haven't tested the desktop client yet. > >> > > > >> > > I must admit that I prefer using Gitter. Probably until I get bitten > >> by > >> > > the 1-1 history issue :). > >> > > > >> > > From what I can see, GitLab doesn't invest much in Gitter either so I > >> > > wonder if it's gonna be viable in the long term. > >> > > > >> > > I suppose we'll see. > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > Guillaume > >> > > > >> > > On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 8:58 AM Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >> wrote: > >> > > > >> > >> The WildFly team is moving from Slack to Zulip, because Zulip seems > >> to be > >> > >> the only solution that is free, provides unlimited history, and > >> allows > >> > >> unlimited users even in private rooms (for OSS projects, at least). > >> Gitter > >> > >> has all that, except unlimited users, as we are limited to 25 people > >> per > >> > >> private room. > >> > >> > >> > >> You can join them here: https://wildfly.zulipchat.com/ > >> > >> > >> > >> Back to our solution... We are now 71 days away from the > >> decommissioning > >> > >> of > >> > >> HipChat. *Is everyone happy with Gitter?* Do you see a strong reason > >> to > >> > >> keep looking for another solution? > >> > >> > >> > >> For my part, I noticed problems with the web client, in particular > >> with > >> > >> notifications, which are sub-standard, but with the desktop client > >> > >> everything seems to work fine. It's simple, but it does the job. > >> > >> > >> > >> Yoann Rodière > >> > >> Hibernate NoORM Team > >> > >> yoann(a)hibernate.org > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 at 14:40, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> > On top of not being able to add more than 25 people to a private > >> room, > >> > >> > there's another limitation of Gitter that Fabio just noticed: the > >> chat > >> > >> > history for 1-to-1 conversations is very limited. In our case, we > >> can > >> > >> only > >> > >> > see 2 days back, and there's no concept of archives like there is > >> in > >> > >> rooms. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > Meanwhile, the WildFly team is giving up on Slack because of the > >> very > >> > >> > limited size of history in free plans. They are investigating > >> Zulip, > >> > >> > RocketChat and MatterMost in particular. Maybe let's see what they > >> end > >> > >> up > >> > >> > choosing and why? > >> > >> > > >> > >> > Yoann Rodière > >> > >> > Hibernate NoORM Team > >> > >> > yoann(a)hibernate.org > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 11:33, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > >> >> On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 08:49, Yoann Rodiere <yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >> > >> wrote: > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >>> > Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it > >> might be > >> > >> >>> too successful as well > >> > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> Ok. Well, I guess we'll see. As I mentioned above, I don't think > >> > >> forcing > >> > >> >>> people to have a GitHub account will be very effective, but I > >> can't > >> > >> suggest > >> > >> >>> a perfect solution either. Bots answering with a few links > >> > >> (documentation, > >> > >> >>> etc.) to the first message of each user come to mind, but that > >> could > >> > >> be > >> > >> >>> considered rude, so I wouldn't do that unless the traffic becomes > >> > >> >>> unmanageable. Other solutions include kicking out "spammers" > >> (but that > >> > >> >>> doesn't work if it's many users asking a single question), or > >> making > >> > >> the > >> > >> >>> -dev rooms invite-only and only checking the user rooms once in a > >> > >> while > >> > >> >>> (might work if Gitter sends emails when your are mentioned while > >> > >> offline). > >> > >> >>> So, yeah, in short: I don't really know. > >> > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> > More just accountability. But if some form of login in needed > >> to > >> > >> use > >> > >> >>> Gitter, that's enough for me. Sounded like the other option was > >> > >> "allow > >> > >> >>> anonymous", which I wanted to avoid. > >> > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> Then it should be fine: anonymous access apparently only allows > >> to > >> > >> read > >> > >> >>> messages. Login through GitLab, GitHub or Twitter is necessary in > >> > >> order to > >> > >> >>> start posting new messages. > >> > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> Yoann Rodière > >> > >> >>> Hibernate NoORM Team > >> > >> >>> yoann(a)hibernate.org > >> > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 19:34, Steve Ebersole < > >> steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >> > >> >>> wrote: > >> > >> >>> > >> > >> >>>> For me its not so much about "the right kind of people". More > >> just > >> > >> >>>> accountability. But if some form of login in needed to use > >> Gitter, > >> > >> that's > >> > >> >>>> enough for me. Sounded like the other option was "allow > >> anonymous", > >> > >> which > >> > >> >>>> I wanted to avoid. > >> > >> >>>> > >> > >> >>>> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:41 AM Sanne Grinovero < > >> > >> sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >> > >> >>>> wrote: > >> > >> >>>> > >> > >> >>>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 17:27, Yoann Rodiere < > >> yoann(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >> > >> >>>>> wrote: > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> > I don't see why we should force people to have a GitHub > >> account, > >> > >> >>>>> considering there are other means of logging into Gitter. > >> > >> >>>>> > >> > >> >>>>> Ok. > >> > >> >>>>> > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> > As to getting the right type of people, I'm not sure it's > >> > >> relevant. > >> > >> >>>>> Most people are likely to have one, and those who don't are > >> likely > >> > >> to not > >> > >> >>>>> have one for political reasons (think free software extremists) > >> > >> rather than > >> > >> >>>>> because they aren't tech savvy enough: while the "hibernate" > >> naming > >> > >> might > >> > >> >>>>> confuse users looking for information about grizzly bears, I > >> doubt > >> > >> my > >> > >> >>>>> grandmother, my 7-year-old nephew or even my > >> non-software-engineer > >> > >> of a > >> > >> >>>>> wife would end up on Gitter by mistake. > >> > >> >>>>> > >> > >> >>>>> Well since that's obvious, clearly I was referring to a > >> different > >> > >> way > >> > >> >>>>> of cathegorizing people joining@ not by age or expertise in > >> > >> technology > >> > >> >>>>> but in having reasonable expectations and willing to do some > >> > >> research > >> > >> >>>>> before bothering us all. > >> > >> >>>>> > >> > >> >>>>> You probably weren't around yet, but Hibernate has had hard > >> times in > >> > >> >>>>> which it was "victim of its own success": just too many > >> > >> >>>>> kinda-interested people making a ton of basic questions that > >> could > >> > >> be > >> > >> >>>>> easily solved otherwise. > >> > >> >>>>> > >> > >> >>>>> Some "barriers" we have in place have made it manageable; of > >> course > >> > >> I > >> > >> >>>>> can't tell if it's all merit of the barriers of entry or just > >> people > >> > >> >>>>> coming in lower volumes with better intentions, but I'm > >> confident > >> > >> that > >> > >> >>>>> some of the barriers we have have helped to keep some sanity > >> (e.g. > >> > >> >>>>> login on #hibernate-dev on IRC requiring an account). > >> > >> >>>>> > >> > >> >>>>> Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it > >> might be > >> > >> >>>>> too successful as well. But I guess we'll see, or let's use a > >> very > >> > >> >>>>> bad chat platform so to keep people from coming :P > >> > >> >>>>> > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> > Yoann Rodière > >> > >> >>>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team > >> > >> >>>>> > yoann(a)hibernate.org > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 18:02, Sanne Grinovero < > >> > >> sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >> > >> >>>>> wrote: > >> > >> >>>>> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 16:02, Steve Ebersole < > >> > >> steve(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >> > >> >>>>> wrote: > >> > >> >>>>> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> > What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub > >> account > >> > >> >>>>> to join these rooms? I just noticed that is a toggle-option > >> in the > >> > >> room's > >> > >> >>>>> settings also. > >> > >> >>>>> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> I don't remember. We created these rooms as an experiment in > >> > >> 2014.. > >> > >> >>>>> >> Yoann created some more rooms recently. > >> > >> >>>>> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> Should we enforce people to have a Github account? I'd like > >> > >> that, I > >> > >> >>>>> >> think it would better nudge towards getting the right type > >> of > >> > >> people > >> > >> >>>>> >> to join. > >> > >> >>>>> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> Thanks, > >> > >> >>>>> >> Sanne > >> > >> >>>>> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet < > >> > >> >>>>> guillaume.smet(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero < > >> > >> >>>>> sanne(a)hibernate.org&gt; > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> wrote: > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack > >> is > >> > >> the > >> > >> >>>>> way to > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that > >> we'll need > >> > >> >>>>> to be > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > patient and we'll always be short of some features - if > >> > >> that's > >> > >> >>>>> not > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > acceptable then only Slack will make you happy. > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for > >> me > >> > >> but > >> > >> >>>>> yeah not > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> having sound is really annoying. > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> I might miss notifications from time to time. > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if > >> you > >> > >> ping > >> > >> >>>>> me :). > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients > >> > >> don't > >> > >> >>>>> have > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > this specific problem.. might want to try that? > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my > >> > >> >>>>> interactions with > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> people. > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb > >> (and not > >> > >> >>>>> very excited > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> about compiling it). > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on > >> it if > >> > >> >>>>> they want to > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> become a player in this area. They certainly have some > >> work to > >> > >> >>>>> do to catch > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> up with others. > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> -- > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> Guillaume > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> hibernate-dev mailing list > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >> > >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> >>>>> >> hibernate-dev mailing list > >> > >> >>>>> >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >> > >> >>>>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >> > >> >>>>> > >> > >> >>>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> hibernate-dev mailing list > >> > >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >> > >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >> > > > >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > hibernate-dev mailing list > >> > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> hibernate-dev mailing list > >> hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > > > > _______________________________________________ > hibernate-dev mailing list > hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev _______________________________________________ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev