My only concern is that we loose the link with AS and thus make it close to impossible to reintegrate. In effect it'll mean we'll have to refactor AS itself more extensively. Apart from that the slimmer, the better. Carlo On 12/16/2009 06:50 AM, Andrew Lee Rubinger wrote: > @see https://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/RELOADED-10 > > In the last design call I noted one approach to building slimmer > runtimes was to take Carlo's notion of Reloaded, but instead of taking > from the AS configs get things as trim as possible and only bring up > what's needed for VDF/MainDeployer. Ales was kind enough to point me to > some precanned stuff already used in the jboss-deployers testsuite, so I > stole a bunch of that and coupled it with jboss-bootstrap-impl-mc. > > The basic test is able to install a new Deployer to the chain and ensure > it's used when a new Deployment is deployed via MainDeployer. Takes > about 1.9 seconds on my machine from JVM start to shutdown. > > http://anonsvn.jboss.org/repos/jbossas/projects/reloaded/trunk/vdf-bootst... > > I think the next steps are as we've already discussed: > > 1) Make this into an extensible component which can be > reused/extended/composed > 2) Bring up ProfileService in another extension > > Thoughts? > > S, > ALR > > _______________________________________________ jboss-development mailing list jboss-development(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development

It's this "rebuilding from scratch" approach I want to take, though I don't think it'll be a replacement for AS. More along the lines of a parallel project. AS, for many, has come to imply: * $JBOSS_HOME file structure/layout * Standalone Distribution * Filesystem and runscript-based interface Also AS is the upstream path towards our platform/product. With a new name (Reloaded?) we can more easily shed all backwards-compat that AS has provided and grow incrementally in a community setting. S, ALR On 12/16/2009 10:30 AM, Bill Burke wrote: > Maybe this could be done with the entire AS. Define a new profile > slowly with the fat trimmed. Slowly add stuff that is blessed as "main > stream". When its done, you have AS 6. > > Carlo de Wolf wrote: >> My only concern is that we loose the link with AS and thus make it close >> to impossible to reintegrate. In effect it'll mean we'll have to >> refactor AS itself more extensively. >> >> Apart from that the slimmer, the better. >> >> Carlo >> >> On 12/16/2009 06:50 AM, Andrew Lee Rubinger wrote: >>> @see https://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/RELOADED-10 >>> >>> In the last design call I noted one approach to building slimmer >>> runtimes was to take Carlo's notion of Reloaded, but instead of taking >>> from the AS configs get things as trim as possible and only bring up >>> what's needed for VDF/MainDeployer. Ales was kind enough to point me to >>> some precanned stuff already used in the jboss-deployers testsuite, so I >>> stole a bunch of that and coupled it with jboss-bootstrap-impl-mc. >>> >>> The basic test is able to install a new Deployer to the chain and ensure >>> it's used when a new Deployment is deployed via MainDeployer. Takes >>> about 1.9 seconds on my machine from JVM start to shutdown. >>> >>> http://anonsvn.jboss.org/repos/jbossas/projects/reloaded/trunk/vdf-bootst... >>> >>> I think the next steps are as we've already discussed: >>> >>> 1) Make this into an extensible component which can be >>> reused/extended/composed >>> 2) Bring up ProfileService in another extension >>> >>> Thoughts? >>> >>> S, >>> ALR >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> jboss-development mailing list >> jboss-development(a)lists.jboss.org >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development >

And I don't think we should put our users through psychotherapy, or fight the uphill battle of educating on the differences between ASx and ASy, when in fact they're totally different projects. More important, there's the platform issue I mentioned. AS leads to EAP, and I don't want to start with the burden of supporting full EAP functions. S, ALR On 12/16/2009 10:48 AM, David M. Lloyd wrote: > Backwards compatibility (especially between major versions) is a > psychological barrier only. It is not a requirement AFAICT > > - DML > > On 12/16/2009 09:42 AM, Andrew Lee Rubinger wrote: > >> It's this "rebuilding from scratch" approach I want to take, though I >> don't think it'll be a replacement for AS. More along the lines of a >> parallel project. >> >> AS, for many, has come to imply: >> >> * $JBOSS_HOME file structure/layout >> * Standalone Distribution >> * Filesystem and runscript-based interface >> >> Also AS is the upstream path towards our platform/product. >> >> With a new name (Reloaded?) we can more easily shed all backwards-compat >> that AS has provided and grow incrementally in a community setting. >> >> S, >> ALR >> >> On 12/16/2009 10:30 AM, Bill Burke wrote: >> >>> Maybe this could be done with the entire AS. Define a new profile >>> slowly with the fat trimmed. Slowly add stuff that is blessed as "main >>> stream". When its done, you have AS 6. >>> >>> Carlo de Wolf wrote: >>> >>>> My only concern is that we loose the link with AS and thus make it close >>>> to impossible to reintegrate. In effect it'll mean we'll have to >>>> refactor AS itself more extensively. >>>> >>>> Apart from that the slimmer, the better. >>>> >>>> Carlo >>>> >>>> On 12/16/2009 06:50 AM, Andrew Lee Rubinger wrote: >>>> >>>>> @see https://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/RELOADED-10 >>>>> >>>>> In the last design call I noted one approach to building slimmer >>>>> runtimes was to take Carlo's notion of Reloaded, but instead of taking >>>>> from the AS configs get things as trim as possible and only bring up >>>>> what's needed for VDF/MainDeployer. Ales was kind enough to point me to >>>>> some precanned stuff already used in the jboss-deployers testsuite, so I >>>>> stole a bunch of that and coupled it with jboss-bootstrap-impl-mc. >>>>> >>>>> The basic test is able to install a new Deployer to the chain and ensure >>>>> it's used when a new Deployment is deployed via MainDeployer. Takes >>>>> about 1.9 seconds on my machine from JVM start to shutdown. >>>>> >>>>> http://anonsvn.jboss.org/repos/jbossas/projects/reloaded/trunk/vdf-bootst... >>>>> >>>>> I think the next steps are as we've already discussed: >>>>> >>>>> 1) Make this into an extensible component which can be >>>>> reused/extended/composed >>>>> 2) Bring up ProfileService in another extension >>>>> >>>>> Thoughts? >>>>> >>>>> S, >>>>> ALR >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> jboss-development mailing list >>>> jboss-development(a)lists.jboss.org >>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development >>>> >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > jboss-development mailing list > jboss-development(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development >

AIUI, the purpose of Reloaded is to support lightweight runtimes for things like EJB3 standalone, right? If that's the case what you describe makes perfect sense to me. The big concern would be that as you "grow incrementally" and add functionality you'll end up redoing work that's done in the AS, reinventing the wheel, etc. So in the future, don't do that! ;) What you described in your first post isn't that; you're reusing stuff. On 12/16/2009 09:42 AM, Andrew Lee Rubinger wrote: > It's this "rebuilding from scratch" approach I want to take, though I > don't think it'll be a replacement for AS. More along the lines of a > parallel project. > > AS, for many, has come to imply: > > * $JBOSS_HOME file structure/layout > * Standalone Distribution > * Filesystem and runscript-based interface > > Also AS is the upstream path towards our platform/product. > > With a new name (Reloaded?) we can more easily shed all backwards-compat > that AS has provided and grow incrementally in a community setting. > > S, > ALR > > On 12/16/2009 10:30 AM, Bill Burke wrote: >> Maybe this could be done with the entire AS. Define a new profile >> slowly with the fat trimmed. Slowly add stuff that is blessed as "main >> stream". When its done, you have AS 6. >> >> Carlo de Wolf wrote: >>> My only concern is that we loose the link with AS and thus make it close >>> to impossible to reintegrate. In effect it'll mean we'll have to >>> refactor AS itself more extensively. >>> >>> Apart from that the slimmer, the better. >>> >>> Carlo >>> >>> On 12/16/2009 06:50 AM, Andrew Lee Rubinger wrote: >>>> @see https://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/RELOADED-10 >>>> >>>> In the last design call I noted one approach to building slimmer >>>> runtimes was to take Carlo's notion of Reloaded, but instead of taking >>>> from the AS configs get things as trim as possible and only bring up >>>> what's needed for VDF/MainDeployer. Ales was kind enough to point me to >>>> some precanned stuff already used in the jboss-deployers testsuite, so I >>>> stole a bunch of that and coupled it with jboss-bootstrap-impl-mc. >>>> >>>> The basic test is able to install a new Deployer to the chain and ensure >>>> it's used when a new Deployment is deployed via MainDeployer. Takes >>>> about 1.9 seconds on my machine from JVM start to shutdown. >>>> >>>> http://anonsvn.jboss.org/repos/jbossas/projects/reloaded/trunk/vdf-bootst... >>>> >>>> I think the next steps are as we've already discussed: >>>> >>>> 1) Make this into an extensible component which can be >>>> reused/extended/composed >>>> 2) Bring up ProfileService in another extension >>>> >>>> Thoughts? >>>> >>>> S, >>>> ALR >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> jboss-development mailing list >>> jboss-development(a)lists.jboss.org >>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development

AIUI, the purpose of Reloaded is to support lightweight runtimes for things like EJB3 standalone, right? If that's the case what you describe makes perfect sense to me.

The big concern would be that as you "grow incrementally" and add functionality you'll end up redoing work that's done in the AS, reinventing the wheel, etc. So in the future, don't do that! ;) What you described in your first post isn't that; you're reusing stuff.

On 12/16/2009 09:42 AM, Andrew Lee Rubinger wrote: > It's this "rebuilding from scratch" approach I want to take, though I > don't think it'll be a replacement for AS. More along the lines of a > parallel project. > > AS, for many, has come to imply: > > * $JBOSS_HOME file structure/layout > * Standalone Distribution > * Filesystem and runscript-based interface > > Also AS is the upstream path towards our platform/product. > > With a new name (Reloaded?) we can more easily shed all backwards-compat > that AS has provided and grow incrementally in a community setting. > > S, > ALR > > On 12/16/2009 10:30 AM, Bill Burke wrote: >> Maybe this could be done with the entire AS. Define a new profile >> slowly with the fat trimmed. Slowly add stuff that is blessed as "main >> stream". When its done, you have AS 6. >> >> Carlo de Wolf wrote: >>> My only concern is that we loose the link with AS and thus make it close >>> to impossible to reintegrate. In effect it'll mean we'll have to >>> refactor AS itself more extensively. >>> >>> Apart from that the slimmer, the better. >>> >>> Carlo >>> >>> On 12/16/2009 06:50 AM, Andrew Lee Rubinger wrote: >>>> @see https://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/RELOADED-10 >>>> >>>> In the last design call I noted one approach to building slimmer >>>> runtimes was to take Carlo's notion of Reloaded, but instead of taking >>>> from the AS configs get things as trim as possible and only bring up >>>> what's needed for VDF/MainDeployer. Ales was kind enough to point me to >>>> some precanned stuff already used in the jboss-deployers testsuite, so I >>>> stole a bunch of that and coupled it with jboss-bootstrap-impl-mc. >>>> >>>> The basic test is able to install a new Deployer to the chain and ensure >>>> it's used when a new Deployment is deployed via MainDeployer. Takes >>>> about 1.9 seconds on my machine from JVM start to shutdown. >>>> >>>> http://anonsvn.jboss.org/repos/jbossas/projects/reloaded/trunk/vdf-bootst... >>>> >>>> I think the next steps are as we've already discussed: >>>> >>>> 1) Make this into an extensible component which can be >>>> reused/extended/composed >>>> 2) Bring up ProfileService in another extension >>>> >>>> Thoughts? >>>> >>>> S, >>>> ALR >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> jboss-development mailing list >>> jboss-development(a)lists.jboss.org >>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development >> >

On that note we should define the relationship between AS minimal configuration and Reloaded. Note that it starts in ~9 seconds, which is way too long. Carlo On 12/16/2009 04:30 PM, Bill Burke wrote: > Maybe this could be done with the entire AS. Define a new profile > slowly with the fat trimmed. Slowly add stuff that is blessed as "main > stream". When its done, you have AS 6. > > Carlo de Wolf wrote: > >> My only concern is that we loose the link with AS and thus make it close >> to impossible to reintegrate. In effect it'll mean we'll have to >> refactor AS itself more extensively. >> >> Apart from that the slimmer, the better. >> >> Carlo >> >> On 12/16/2009 06:50 AM, Andrew Lee Rubinger wrote: >> >>> @see https://jira.jboss.org/jira/browse/RELOADED-10 >>> >>> In the last design call I noted one approach to building slimmer >>> runtimes was to take Carlo's notion of Reloaded, but instead of taking >>> from the AS configs get things as trim as possible and only bring up >>> what's needed for VDF/MainDeployer. Ales was kind enough to point me to >>> some precanned stuff already used in the jboss-deployers testsuite, so I >>> stole a bunch of that and coupled it with jboss-bootstrap-impl-mc. >>> >>> The basic test is able to install a new Deployer to the chain and ensure >>> it's used when a new Deployment is deployed via MainDeployer. Takes >>> about 1.9 seconds on my machine from JVM start to shutdown. >>> >>> http://anonsvn.jboss.org/repos/jbossas/projects/reloaded/trunk/vdf-bootst... >>> >>> I think the next steps are as we've already discussed: >>> >>> 1) Make this into an extensible component which can be >>> reused/extended/composed >>> 2) Bring up ProfileService in another extension >>> >>> Thoughts? >>> >>> S, >>> ALR >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> jboss-development mailing list >> jboss-development(a)lists.jboss.org >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development >> > _______________________________________________ jboss-development mailing list jboss-development(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development