Sure. Everyone uses whatever log framework they want. Then when they all
go in to the appserver, it all just works. It's like magic!
- DML
On 05/05/2008 02:30 PM, Steve Ebersole wrote:
Can't you just use small words for those of us that aren't
deployment
experts? :)
On May 5, 2008, at 2:24 PM, David M. Lloyd wrote:
> Yeah, this is the exact basis of my idea to make emulation APIs for
> AS/MC deployments. We could provide APIs for every logging framework
> known to mankind, including multiple versions of the same framework if
> they happen to be incompatible (if we do our deployments correctly
> anyway).
>
> Then the user just has to specify what logging API they use in their
> deployment somehow (it would be cool if we could just dynamically
> sniff out that info). As Scott pointed out, we also would need a way
> to parse all the different logging config formats. Which pretty much
> brings us up to date. :-)
>
> - DML
>
> On 05/05/2008 02:17 PM, Steve Ebersole wrote:
>> Another option might be dynamic replacement of the logging framework
>> with a different impl altogether. There is an example of this in
>> allowing code using commons-logging to remain unchanged, and a
>> different implementation of the commons-logging APIs to be
>> substituted with slf4j logging:
>>
http://day-to-day-stuff.blogspot.com/2007/07/no-more-commons-logging.html
>> In fact I use this setup already in the hibernate testsuite to
>> account for other libraries (commons-collections, etc) which use
>> commons-logging and have them dynamically use my slf4j setup.
>> On May 5, 2008, at 8:11 AM, David M. Lloyd wrote:
>>> I'm a bit hazy on the details but I understand that some logging
>>> frameworks allow you to subclass a base logger class, and some don't
>>> - so if you do so it's really difficult to properly weave in the
>>> appropriate substitution. Last time I heard, Trustin still didn't
>>> have a solution to the problem.
>>>
>>> Have you already made the switch to JDK logging in the jbossas
>>> core? If so, is there a sensible LogManager yet?
>>>
>>> Also, do we need to do anything funky like support different
>>> configurations on a per-deployment basis? I am under the impression
>>> that Glassfish does this, but I haven't figured out the details yet.
>>>
>>> For configurations, I get what you're saying - though I imagine
>>> there's probably users out there who want to use their own logging
>>> framework and configuration in certain deployments, so I think we'd
>>> need a way to support that - maybe just by detecting the presence of
>>> a logging implementation in the deployment or something.
>>>
>>> Otherwise, based on what I know of the various logging configuration
>>> formats, we could probably just rewrite the logging configuration
>>> into a bean deployment that just uses the JDK logging API to acquire
>>> and configure Logger and Handler instances, rather than try to use
>>> the stupid properties system that the default LogManager uses.
>>>
>>> - DML
>>>
>>> On 05/04/2008 02:42 PM, Scott Stark wrote:
>>>> All that I can recall as a reasonable compromise was to simply move
>>>> to the jdk logging with the replacement logging handlers based on
>>>> the log4j type of appenders I ported over when previously looking
>>>> at this problem. Trustin has since introduced log2log, we could
>>>> always use jboss retro to map framework X onto the jbossas core,
>>>> but that does not cover the framwork X configuration files.
>>>> How I can see the mc and jbossas deployment framework fitting in is
>>>> by rewriting the logging system X config files onto the current
>>>> jbossas implementation if that is desired. The problem always is
>>>> whether the logging in question is part of a user application, or a
>>>> jbossas framework. In reality I only see jdk logging for the server
>>>> frameworks and other frameworks wanting to integrate with the
>>>> server logs having a jdk logger option, or an adaptor.
>>>> What are the log2log issues showing up?
>>>> David M. Lloyd wrote:
>>>>> Well, that's a good project, but bytecode weaving seems like a
>>>>> pretty heavy-duty solution to a simple problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> The basic problem is, people (within JBoss and without) are going
>>>>> to use the frameworks they're going to use. How much effort is
it
>>>>> to adapt log2log (which has already run into some interesting
>>>>> technical dilemmas) to another framework, versus just adding
>>>>> another API facade? It seems like the microcontainer arch would
>>>>> be perfectly suited towards auto-wiring the appropriate logging API.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wouldn't it be nice if we could say, "deploy your app in
>>>>> JBossAS/JBossMC and it will *just work*, regardless of what
>>>>> logging frameworks are being used by what"?
>>>>>
>>>>> - DML
>>>>>
>>>>> On 05/02/2008 01:41 PM, Ales Justin wrote:
>>>>>> What about if we used this:
>>>>>> -
https://svn.jboss.org/repos/log2log/trunk
>>>>>> with-in one of our deployers, and you could mark certain
>>>>>> deployments as being 'dragged' through Log2Log to
'clean-up'
>>>>>> logging?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>>>>> I apologize for the tone in my last response. The original
>>>>>>> thread was frustrating enough, and here it is being relived.
I
>>>>>>> let that frustration get to me when I should not have.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 2, 2008, at 12:12 PM, Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I cannot help that AS seems to think that every piece of
>>>>>>>> technology needs to be complete re-written in house.
Y'all
>>>>>>>> have you're own logging framework, great, add it to
the other
>>>>>>>> 50 out there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The part that you are missing is that Hibernate is first
and
>>>>>>>> foremost a standalone library. And in terms of
integration, I
>>>>>>>> have to consider integration with many containers.
I'm sure
>>>>>>>> they all want jboss-logging as the 'yet another
logging api' in
>>>>>>>> their environments as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I used to use commons-logging which had a very specific
problem
>>>>>>>> that slf4j solves in a unique way *on any platform*...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you recall, I asked about experiences using
jboss-logging in
>>>>>>>> environments other than within JBoss AS and (in keeping
with
>>>>>>>> the general theme of that thread) got no replies to the
>>>>>>>> question asked:
>>>>>>>>
http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/jboss-development/2007-July/010398.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2008, at 11:30 AM, Scott Stark wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And we said sure, introduce yet another logging api?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I initiated that very discussion on this very
list almost a
>>>>>>>>>> year ago ;)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Paul Gier wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I upgraded this based on JBAS-5133 and
Steve's request. I
>>>>>>>>>>> can switch it back to the old version if
that's what is needed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Scott Stark wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why was hibernate updated to 3.3.0 in
jbossas trunk, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> why is this pulling in yet another
logging framework? This
>>>>>>>>>>>> needs to be reverted, and why there has
to be yet another
>>>>>>>>>>>> logging framework dependency brought in
explained.
>>>>>>>>>>>> *** CONTEXTS IN ERROR: Name -> Error
>>>>>>>>>>>>
vfsfile:/media/disk/workspace/tck5/jboss-5.0.0.CR1/server/cts/tmp/jsr88/ejb3_annotations_entity_vehicles.ear
>>>>>>>>>>>> -> java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError:
org/slf4j/LoggerFactory
>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> jboss-development mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> jboss-development(a)lists.jboss.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Project Lead
>>>>>>>>>>
http://hibernate.org
>>>>>>>>>> steve(a)hibernate.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> jboss-development mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> jboss-development(a)lists.jboss.org
>>>>>>>>>>
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>> jboss-development mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Project Lead
>>>>>>>>
http://hibernate.org
>>>>>>>> steve(a)hibernate.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Project Lead
>>>>>>>
http://hibernate.org
>>>>>>> steve(a)hibernate.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
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>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> -----------------------------
>> Steve Ebersole
>> Project Lead
>>
http://hibernate.org
>> steve(a)hibernate.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> jboss-development mailing list
>> jboss-development(a)lists.jboss.org
>>
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> _______________________________________________
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>
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-----------------------------
Steve Ebersole
Project Lead
http://hibernate.org
steve(a)hibernate.org
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