OMG, did you just chastize me for the same exact thing y'all are doing?
On May 5, 2008, at 8:20 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
Shame on Steve for introducing yet another logging framework. All
you're gonna do is piss off every JBoss AS user that wants to debug
Hibernate and has to figure out shitLog4j.
I hate to single you out, but this is another example of the ivory
tower, silo development we have at JBoss where nobody cares about
how they fit into the bigger picture. The world if bigger than
Hibernate.
David M. Lloyd wrote:
> I'm a bit hazy on the details but I understand that some logging
> frameworks allow you to subclass a base logger class, and some
> don't - so if you do so it's really difficult to properly weave in
> the appropriate substitution. Last time I heard, Trustin still
> didn't have a solution to the problem.
> Have you already made the switch to JDK logging in the jbossas
> core? If so, is there a sensible LogManager yet?
> Also, do we need to do anything funky like support different
> configurations on a per-deployment basis? I am under the
> impression that Glassfish does this, but I haven't figured out the
> details yet.
> For configurations, I get what you're saying - though I imagine
> there's probably users out there who want to use their own logging
> framework and configuration in certain deployments, so I think we'd
> need a way to support that - maybe just by detecting the presence
> of a logging implementation in the deployment or something.
> Otherwise, based on what I know of the various logging
> configuration formats, we could probably just rewrite the logging
> configuration into a bean deployment that just uses the JDK logging
> API to acquire and configure Logger and Handler instances, rather
> than try to use the stupid properties system that the default
> LogManager uses.
> - DML
> On 05/04/2008 02:42 PM, Scott Stark wrote:
>> All that I can recall as a reasonable compromise was to simply
>> move to the jdk logging with the replacement logging handlers
>> based on the log4j type of appenders I ported over when previously
>> looking at this problem. Trustin has since introduced log2log, we
>> could always use jboss retro to map framework X onto the jbossas
>> core, but that does not cover the framwork X configuration files.
>>
>> How I can see the mc and jbossas deployment framework fitting in
>> is by rewriting the logging system X config files onto the current
>> jbossas implementation if that is desired. The problem always is
>> whether the logging in question is part of a user application, or
>> a jbossas framework. In reality I only see jdk logging for the
>> server frameworks and other frameworks wanting to integrate with
>> the server logs having a jdk logger option, or an adaptor.
>>
>> What are the log2log issues showing up?
>>
>> David M. Lloyd wrote:
>>> Well, that's a good project, but bytecode weaving seems like a
>>> pretty heavy-duty solution to a simple problem.
>>>
>>> The basic problem is, people (within JBoss and without) are going
>>> to use the frameworks they're going to use. How much effort is
>>> it to adapt log2log (which has already run into some interesting
>>> technical dilemmas) to another framework, versus just adding
>>> another API facade? It seems like the microcontainer arch would
>>> be perfectly suited towards auto-wiring the appropriate logging
>>> API.
>>>
>>> Wouldn't it be nice if we could say, "deploy your app in JBossAS/
>>> JBossMC and it will *just work*, regardless of what logging
>>> frameworks are being used by what"?
>>>
>>> - DML
>>>
>>> On 05/02/2008 01:41 PM, Ales Justin wrote:
>>>> What about if we used this:
>>>> -
https://svn.jboss.org/repos/log2log/trunk
>>>> with-in one of our deployers, and you could mark certain
>>>> deployments as being 'dragged' through Log2Log to
'clean-up'
>>>> logging?
>>>>
>>>> Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>>> I apologize for the tone in my last response. The original
>>>>> thread was frustrating enough, and here it is being relived. I
>>>>> let that frustration get to me when I should not have.
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 2, 2008, at 12:12 PM, Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I cannot help that AS seems to think that every piece of
>>>>>> technology needs to be complete re-written in house. Y'all
>>>>>> have you're own logging framework, great, add it to the other
>>>>>> 50 out there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The part that you are missing is that Hibernate is first and
>>>>>> foremost a standalone library. And in terms of integration, I
>>>>>> have to consider integration with many containers. I'm sure
>>>>>> they all want jboss-logging as the 'yet another logging
api'
>>>>>> in their environments as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I used to use commons-logging which had a very specific
>>>>>> problem that slf4j solves in a unique way *on any platform*...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you recall, I asked about experiences using jboss-logging
>>>>>> in environments other than within JBoss AS and (in keeping
>>>>>> with the general theme of that thread) got no replies to the
>>>>>> question asked:
http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/jboss-development/2007-July/010398.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 2, 2008, at 11:30 AM, Scott Stark wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And we said sure, introduce yet another logging api?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>>>>>> I initiated that very discussion on this very list almost
a
>>>>>>>> year ago ;)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Paul Gier wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I upgraded this based on JBAS-5133 and Steve's
request. I
>>>>>>>>> can switch it back to the old version if that's
what is
>>>>>>>>> needed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Scott Stark wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Why was hibernate updated to 3.3.0 in jbossas
trunk, and
>>>>>>>>>> why is this pulling in yet another logging
framework? This
>>>>>>>>>> needs to be reverted, and why there has to be yet
another
>>>>>>>>>> logging framework dependency brought in
explained.
>>>>>>>>>> *** CONTEXTS IN ERROR: Name -> Error
>>>>>>>>>>
vfsfile:/media/disk/workspace/tck5/jboss-5.0.0.CR1/server/
>>>>>>>>>>
cts/tmp/jsr88/ejb3_annotations_entity_vehicles.ear ->
>>>>>>>>>> java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError:
org/slf4j/LoggerFactory
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> jboss-development mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> jboss-development(a)lists.jboss.org
>>>>>>>>>>
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Project Lead
>>>>>>>>
http://hibernate.org
>>>>>>>> steve(a)hibernate.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>>> Steve Ebersole
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Project Lead
>>>>>>
http://hibernate.org
>>>>>> steve(a)hibernate.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>> Steve Ebersole
>>>>>
>>>>> Project Lead
>>>>>
http://hibernate.org
>>>>> steve(a)hibernate.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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--
Bill Burke
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
http://bill.burkecentral.com
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